Panel build

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EportJake
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Panel build

Post by EportJake » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:21 pm

Hi. I'm in the process of building a 100-150L brewery and am at the stage where I am going to build the panel and would like a quick sense check on the panel layout and features. It's a single teir, 3 vessel, HERMS pot, 2 pump affair.

All DPDT switches - one pole for safety (all off to power panel) the other for contactor coil.

Coloured panel lights in parallel with contactor coil or SSR.

Power meter is coil around incoming cable type.

Power divert ensures elements in both HLT and coil cannot be in service simultaneously to limit current (HERMS vessel element always available).
Panel.jpg
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Last edited by EportJake on Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kev888
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Re: Panel build

Post by Kev888 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:00 pm

Looks smart. Just a coupe of thoughts, which you may well have already considered:

SSRs leak, so an associated panel light may need to be in parallel with the control side (or a complimentary switch or relay) rather than the power output of the SSR, else it may illuminate slightly even when nominally the SSR is off.

The way power is diverted from HLT, Mash, and Kettle could be good if it didn't also deactivate their controllers - so that they can be read and set in advance of their outputs becoming active.

If the Mash always has power, then do you have enough available for this and HLT or Kettle? If the Mash doesn't always have power (or perhaps even if it does?) then a blue panel lamp over it may be good, to show it is active in a consistent way with the HLT and Kettle.

It could be worth considering a delayed/timer start option, in case you want to set up the HLT in advance and cause it to come on prior to your being there. With heating times for larger volumes this can shorten brew day usefully, though there may also be safety issues introduced, of it running unattended.
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Fil
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Re: Panel build

Post by Fil » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:55 pm

If you still have shopping to do you may find this interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmO1y1ISuak

I would consider a lower power wiring circuit to provide power to the instrumentation regardless of how the main load power is switched, another few meters of wire I know.
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EportJake
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Re: Panel build

Post by EportJake » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:30 pm

Thanks chaps. Some good points to consider before I plow in.

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EportJake
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Re: Panel build

Post by EportJake » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:09 am

Kev888 wrote:Looks smart. Just a coupe of thoughts, which you may well have already considered:

SSRs leak, so an associated panel light may need to be in parallel with the control side (or a complimentary switch or relay) rather than the power output of the SSR, else it may illuminate slightly even when nominally the SSR is off.

The way power is diverted from HLT, Mash, and Kettle could be good if it didn't also deactivate their controllers - so that they can be read and set in advance of their outputs becoming active.

If the Mash always has power, then do you have enough available for this and HLT or Kettle? If the Mash doesn't always have power (or perhaps even if it does?) then a blue panel lamp over it may be good, to show it is active in a consistent way with the HLT and Kettle.

It could be worth considering a delayed/timer start option, in case you want to set up the HLT in advance and cause it to come on prior to your being there. With heating times for larger volumes this can shorten brew day usefully, though there may also be safety issues introduced, of it running unattended.
Made me think this. My new plan is to put a 5.5kW element and a 2.5kW in my HLT and boiler. The 5.5kW will be the boost whilst the 2.5kW is control for the HLT. If I wire the switches for the boosts to trip the 2.4kW element in the HERMS pot, I'll limit current pull to about 35A. I'll still be able to heat water in my HLT for sparge whilst the Mash is on with the 2.5kW and ensure when I put both elements in the boiler on all other elements are off. Effectively you can have both elements on in one vessel, or the HERMS and one low power element in either the HLT or boiler.
Make sense?

The only flaw in my plan I can see is a single point of failure if I lose the 5.5kW element in the boiler.

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Kev888
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Re: Panel build

Post by Kev888 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:52 am

Yeah, pretty much. The 5.5kw elements would need to run from industrial sockets/wiring, not standard 13A domestic outlets, but in principle it seems okay if I understand it correctly.

I may be tempted to control the boost element for the HLT as well as the 2.5kw one, so that I couldn't forget the boost and overshoot, but thats simply my personal preference. Possibly the element roles may need reversing for the kettle, 2.5kw is starting to get a little small for sustaining a rolling boil in 150L, much would depend on the kettle design and insulation; it may be that the 5.5kw would be better for boiling, with the 2.5kw being the boost.

5.5kw + 2.5kw is quite a lot of power; for 150L it probably isn't excessive and hanging around for things to heat is no fun, so thats fine if you have a good enough mains supply and budget. But you may well be able to manage on less if you needed to, particularly if liquor can be heated more slowly in advance.
Kev

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EportJake
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Re: Panel build

Post by EportJake » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:31 pm

Kev888 wrote:Yeah, pretty much. The 5.5kw elements would need to run from industrial sockets/wiring, not standard 13A domestic outlets, but in principle it seems okay if I understand it correctly.

I may be tempted to control the boost element for the HLT as well as the 2.5kw one, so that I couldn't forget the boost and overshoot, but thats simply my personal preference. Possibly the element roles may need reversing for the kettle, 2.5kw is starting to get a little small for sustaining a rolling boil in 150L, much would depend on the kettle design and insulation; it may be that the 5.5kw would be better for boiling, with the 2.5kw being the boost.

5.5kw + 2.5kw is quite a lot of power; for 150L it probably isn't excessive and hanging around for things to heat is no fun, so thats fine if you have a good enough mains supply and budget. But you may well be able to manage on less if you needed to, particularly if liquor can be heated more slowly in advance.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm going to have a little flexibility in element/PID configuration as the elements are on 32A plug and socket leads into the panel, so can be swapped around if needs be.
The PID I have has a relay output which can be rigged to an alarm and inverted. I was planning on using that to kill the boost contactor coil when the HLT reached say 65degC to avoid overshoot.

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