Ritchies or VWP

[craigmtc]

I have just started brewing in the last couple of months, and have been using Ritchies to steralise the equipment. I have used £5 worth to produce 2 lots of wine and 1 of lager, which seems a lot and also I am not convinced it's the best product to use.

I was wondering if VWP would be a better choice.

Any adice would be appreciate.

Cheers

Craig

[MightyMouth]

If you are using either of these you would be just as well off using Thin Bleach - 1/2 cup per 5 gallons.

If you are feeling adventurous, I recently posted information on using a Thin Bleach and Vinegar solution to make a No Rinse Sanitiser. I haven't tried it yet but am going to give it a go on my next brew. Basically you fill a FV with 5 US gallons of water, add 30ml of Bleach and stir well, then add 30ml of Vinegar and stir well. This creates a solution with a PH of about 5 and according to the source requires just 30 seconds contact to be effective and at 80ppm the concentration of chlorine left over is low enough that it doesnt need to be rinsed. It is very important you don't mix the bleach and vinegar directly.

[craigmtc]

Thanks for your suggestions mightymouth. Is thin blech available in the super market? Can this be used to sterlize all equipment?

Cheers

Craig

[MightyMouth]

Yes, just get the supermarket brand thin bleach in the plain bottle. If you just use the 1/2 cup per 5 gallon solution you must rinse very thoroughly. I think the better option is the 30ml of bleach and 30ml of vinegar, its still just as cheap and apparently much better at sterilising. You could still rinse if you feel you must but I don't like rinsing as I feel you are chancing reintroducing the bacteria you are trying to kill which is why I use Star San and am going to try the Bleach/Vinegar solution next time.

[Jim]

The only word of caution on thin bleach is that the concentration of active ingredient varies from brand to brand, so it's difficult to be certain you have the right concentration in your mixture. There's a thread about it somewhere, I'll try and dig it out.

[Jim]

See Graham's post on this thread. There's a more detailed one but I can't find it at the moment.

[MightyMouth]

That is interesting Jim. The information about using Bleach and Vinegar assumed 5% available chlorine so if value thin bleach has less then you would have to use more but without definitive information how could you ever be accurate. Charlie Talley suggests that if you use too much bleach you will never sanitise with it as the PH is too high. I am now going to have to go round to all the supermarkets and see if any list the chlorine content.

[craigmtc]

Thanks for your input guys. Jim what do you use? Also I see your in Washington, I live in Ryhope, do you buy your steraliser locally?

Cheers

Craig

[Jim]

Thanks for your input guys. Jim what do you use? Also I see your in Washington, I live in Ryhope, do you buy your steraliser locally?

Cheers

Craig

I like VWP - works well and is also a good cleaner, but it's expensive. I've used bleach successfully (ASDA smartprice) and I also use betadine. Soda crystals are good for cleaning if you're chosen sanitiser/steriliser doesn't have built-in cleaning action.

I get most of my stuff over the internet now - the closest decent HB shop is Hop and Grap in Darlington - though there's one somewhere in Houghton le Spring that might be better for you.

I don't know if you've ever been to Ryhope community centre, but if you've seen (or heard) the theatre organ in there, I was one of the team that moved it there from the Sunderland Odeon when they turned it into a bingo hall about 20 years ago. That was some job!

[Graham]

I am now going to have to go round to all the supermarkets and see if any list the chlorine content.

I have already performed that exercise, and the only one that I found that stated the hypochlorite level was Domestos. To get the information you have to write to the supermarket concerned. I wrote to Morrisons some time back and got a figure of 1.8% for their own brand, although that info is probably out of date now. Someone on here earlier this year wrote to Brobat and got a figure of 1.1% for their thin bleach. Quite frankly it is often false economy to use these thin bleaches; it is often cheaper to use the thick bleaches. I do not believe that the thickeners and perfumes in the thick bleaches are an issue at the dilutions that we use them in, so I stick to Domestos because I know its strength (4.9% hypo).

To acidify bleach you need the pH to be below pH8 for it to be effective. Optimum killing power (100%) is at pH5, but below that the efficiency drops off again and below pH4 you gas off the chlorine making it ineffective (It is not a hazard in the dilutions we are talking about). It is best to aim for pH7 I guess. Anywhere around there will be good enough. At pH6 you are 96% full strength.

With acidified bleach, 50ppm of available chlorine is sufficient.

[craigmtc]

Absolutely Jim, I am at the community centre tomorrow night for Cricket coaching, I'll have a look for the Piano.

I am interesting in using bleach as by the time you double rack and either Keg or bottle it take around 20 tsp of Ritchies and it works out expensive. So Graham when using domestos at 4.9 what's the dilution ratio?

Cheers

Craig

[MightyMouth]

Thanks Graham, so what volumes do you use for a no rinse solution? 30ml in 23litres would be what? roughly 60ppm?

[Graham]

Assume 4.5% available chlorine for thick bleach and 1% available chlorine for thin bleach.

Code: Select all

Application              Available Chlorine	     Quantity@ 4·5%       Quantity@1%
Heavy-duty cleaning         2700 ppm                 60 ml/l              270 ml/l
Medium-duty cleaning	     1125 ppm                 25 ml/l	           112 ml/l
Light-duty cleaning	       540 ppm                 12 ml/l               55 ml/l
Standard Disinfectant	     200 ppm                4.5 ml/l               20 ml/l

The disinfectant strength assumes non-acidified dilution.

[Jim]

Absolutely Jim, I am at the community centre tomorrow night for Cricket coaching, I'll have a look for the Piano.

I am interesting in using bleach as by the time you double rack and either Keg or bottle it take around 20 tsp of Ritchies and it works out expensive. So Graham when using domestos at 4.9 what's the dilution ratio?

Cheers

Craig

It's upstairs in the function room. The console is on the right hand side of the stage (it'll be boxed in if not in use) and there's 2 chambers full of pipes at the back of the stage. It's a monster!

[Graham]

Thanks Graham, so what volumes do you use for a no rinse solution? 30ml in 23litres would be what? roughly 60ppm?

Yes.