Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

The place to discuss all things about brewing hygiene!
NorthEastBrewer
Steady Drinker
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by NorthEastBrewer » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:13 pm

Hi all,

After seeing the Sodium Percarbonate and PBW group buy threads, viewtopic.php?f=8&t=74921 [f00b4r's thread], and the expense of buying PBW in small volumes, I started having a read about alternative cleaners that can be bought in small sizes.

I came across an old-ish thread [ viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62421 ] which was mentioning a product called 'Dri-Pak Soda Crystals Laundry Boost' which appears to be a multi purpose cleaner with the following ingredients:

http://www.productingredients.net/dripak.htm
Sodium sesquicarbonate
Sodium percarbonate
Sodium carbonate
tetraacetylethyleendiamine [who makes these names up!?!]
Sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate [Surfactant]
Laureth 7 [Surfactant]

It's extremely cheap in the shops when compared to PBW.

It'd primarily be for my SS grainfather and the copper counter flow chiller, corny keg and beer line/beer faucet, short soak periods roughly 15 mins recirculating through chiller and GF followed by cold water rinse and recirculation.

I was wondering whether anyone else is using or has used this stuff and whether it is any good?
Or anyone good with chemicals on the forum know if this stuff might be safe to use and if so, if it could be a close second to PBW?

Cheers,
Barny

For comparison, after a bit of scouting about on the web, PBW may have the following ingredients:
Sodium percarbonate
Sodium carbonate
Sodium metasilicate
Chelating agent, such as EDTA
Surfactant, such as SDS

rpt
Hollow Legs
Posts: 480
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 4:35 pm
Location: Ilkley, West Yorkshire

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by rpt » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:24 pm

That's the same as oxiclean. Very effective but probably not as good as PBW. I also use TSP (trisodium phosphate).

User avatar
IPA
Under the Table
Posts: 1731
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:29 am
Location: France Gascony

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by IPA » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:33 pm

Ordinary household soda works very well in my BM. I put it on a 60 degree pumped cycle for 30 minutes.
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

It's better to lose time with friends than to lose friends with time (Portuguese proverb)

Alone we travel faster
Together we travel further
( In an admonishing email from our golf club)

NorthEastBrewer
Steady Drinker
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by NorthEastBrewer » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:37 am

Thanks for the information guys, much appreciated!

Barny

User avatar
Kev888
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7701
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:22 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by Kev888 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:46 am

Whilst (IMO) PBW has a slight edge, I agree plain soda crystals will shift most stuff in a warm soak, as will plain percarbonate and variations on oxyclean. The good thing is that you can judge visually how effective they've been at shifting any deposits.

Its perhaps worth keeping two things in mind though. Firstly try to avoid soaking for too long with the plain and general purpose products, as they may lack chelators to stop scale forming on the things being soaked - overnight is fine in my experience, but it may depend on your water hardness etc. Secondly, don't confuse this sort of cleaning product (even PBW) with disinfectants/sanitisers/sterilizers, where things need to be free of microscopic life use a follow-up product.

Cheers
Kev
Last edited by Kev888 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kev

NorthEastBrewer
Steady Drinker
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by NorthEastBrewer » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:45 am

Cheers Kev.
I've still got some PBW left, but am going to give the dri-pak soda crystals laundry boost stuff a go. For the price, its worth a shot and the ingredients seems to look like they will do the job.
Once i've tested them out, I might update this thread again.
Barny

User avatar
Wonkydonkey
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:37 am
Location: In the Stables

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by Wonkydonkey » Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:42 am

I've been using dp soda, (Washing Soda) for ages, it's much better than the pound shop oxi stuff, or just add a bit of WS to the oxi,
As for trisodium phosphate, that's some very strong stuff, it will take the oil outta dry gloss paint and make it into soap (saponification value)

I did read about mixing TSP with other stuff, to make ? ( I can't remember) but it did need a chelator adding.
To Busy To Add,

NorthEastBrewer
Steady Drinker
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by NorthEastBrewer » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:55 pm

Hi WD,

When you say the DP Soda, is that this one?
http://www.dri-pak.co.uk/cleaning-produ ... -crystals/

That seems to have slightly different ingredients:
Sodium Carbonate Decahydrate
Magnesium Hydroxide
Sillica

If it is this one, I managed to find this in a [fairly local] Sainsburys yesterday but as I was on a mission to locate the DP Soda Crystals Laundry Boost product, I didn't buy it.

User avatar
Wonkydonkey
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:37 am
Location: In the Stables

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by Wonkydonkey » Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:33 pm

NorthEastBrewer wrote:Hi WD,

When you say the DP Soda, is that this one?
http://www.dri-pak.co.uk/cleaning-produ ... -crystals/

That seems to have slightly different ingredients:
Sodium Carbonate Decahydrate
Magnesium Hydroxide
Sillica

If it is this one, I managed to find this in a [fairly local] Sainsburys yesterday but as I was on a mission to locate the DP Soda Crystals Laundry Boost product, I didn't buy it.


That be the one, 69p a kg from asda this morining. It's what I've been using for a while, hot water and some of this washing soda, if it feels soapy/slippery when you put your hand in it then you have enough soda in it.
To Busy To Add,

NorthEastBrewer
Steady Drinker
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by NorthEastBrewer » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:31 pm

nice one, thanks.
If I can't find the other one, I will buy some of the soda crystals and give it a go. Although it isn't going to be PBW, the cost savings [plus normal shipping costs for PBW] are massive by comparison.
Barny

Soay4699
Steady Drinker
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:01 pm

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by Soay4699 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:22 am

Exactly how much do you need to add? On the link is suggests 2kg for 10 litres which sounds a awful lot to me.

User avatar
Wonkydonkey
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:37 am
Location: In the Stables

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by Wonkydonkey » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:03 pm

Soay4699 wrote:Exactly how much do you need to add? On the link is suggests 2kg for 10 litres which sounds a awful lot to me.

Not sure which link your asking about, if it is the DP WS. I only use enough to slosh/wipe it a round in what ever I'm cleaning. So if it's the FV, then a litre or two is enough liquid and enough WS to make it feel soapy/slimy on the hands. So that's not more than the regular strength, also every thing else I need to wash goes in the FV aswell. it goes a lot further this way, just like all the other cleaning products.
if you really want a caustic wash use caustic soda, that's straight sodium hydroxdie (NaOH) or drain cleaner but some drain cleaners have a other stuff in it as well
The NaOH is exothermic, that is it gives off heat when mixed with water, that's why its a good drain cleaner, it melts the fat and it starts to turn it into soap.


I hope this helps.
To Busy To Add,

User avatar
Kev888
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7701
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:22 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by Kev888 » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:11 pm

Soay4699 wrote:Exactly how much do you need to add? On the link is suggests 2kg for 10 litres which sounds a awful lot to me.
Assuming you mean the soda crystals, that seems excessive for routine soaking. I guess their guidelines are aimed at stuff like burnt-on oven deposits on small pans (or at selling more soda crystals!).

Unlike disinfectants, there are no hard and fast rules - just whatever works really. Generally with cleaning of physical crud, longer and/or hotter allows a weaker solution for a similar result - though with some cleaners/equipment its necessary to observe maximum safe contact times and keep in mind the potential for scaling up if left too long. FWIW when I used soda crystals it was at the rate of one heaped tablespoon per litre of warm water and generally left overnight (unless there was serious crud to remove in which case up the dose). Which is still quite a lot compared to some cleaners, but remember they're only about seventy pence per kg.

Cheers
Kev
Kev

NorthEastBrewer
Steady Drinker
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by NorthEastBrewer » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:29 pm

How much cold water rinsing do you do guys normally do with the soda crystals for short cleaning steeps of say 1 hour?
For example, would it be a similar sort of amount as you would for PBW or is more rinsing needed to get rid of any residue?

User avatar
Wonkydonkey
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:37 am
Location: In the Stables

Re: Dri-Pak soda crystals boost as alternative to PBW

Post by Wonkydonkey » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:04 pm

My way is not the same as everybody else, but it goes like this.

Wash vessel with cleaner type stuff, it's looking cleaner than it was....
Empty it out or but better put into another vessel that needs cleaning, saves some pennies.
Look close at just cleaned vessel. All looks good and clean.
Put in about the same volume of fresh water into the cleaned vessel. Give it a shake, swirl
Empty it,
Refill with same vol of fresh water. Repeat shake/swirl trying to make sure all parts are coverd just like the initial cleaning step.
If I,m happy all parts have been risnsed, spray with starsan, if not i just rinse one more time then starsan it.

It's the same with all cleaners. I just rinse twice, mabe 3times,on the odd occation

But to be clear, the first rinse is to wash 90-95 percent of the cleaner away and the second is to wash the rest of it away. And the 3rd is to be sure only if I think I missed some.
To Busy To Add,

Post Reply