Slightly hard water? No rinse sanitiser? What should I be using?

[Wozboy]

Right, I live in Wakefield and my water is slightly hard, I've been using Starsan thinking all is well but then having read some posts on here I'm starting to think I'm just going through the motions and potentially achieving nothing! If there is hardness in the water Starsan doesn't work apparently as the water is too alkaline.

My question is this, what no rinse sanitiser can I use? I have a home made keg washer which I use to clean, rinse and sanitise and I love the ease at which I can use this to get through the laborious process of cleaning but the revelations about Starsan do concern me. I've obviously just been very lucky with my brews so far, I've had the occasional issue but only the odd keg annoying though that was. I did know about cloudy Starsan being an issue but tested the Ph and figured it was alright but perhaps I was kidding myself!

Any help gratefully received, I don't really want to have to go to the hassle and expense of buying deionised water if at all possible and if I have to rinse after then so be it but I'd like the easiest and quickest way obviously and I'm hoping someone out there can provide some expert advice!

Many thanks in anticipation!

Cheers

[Marshbrewer]

My water is so hard, that it jumps out of the tap and challenges you to a fight.

I completely descaled my hlt before my last brew, and after heating two lots of water, about 15L each, to around 75°c, there is a circle of scale where the heating element is at the bottom. I also have to use lots of acid in the mash to get the right pH, even with some dark beers.

I had issues with starsan going milky, and not staying in the correct pH range for effective use. So I now use videne - its no rinse, and although it can't be stored (you make it up in brew day, use it and discard) you only need 1.25 ml/L of water, and a 1000ml bottle is less than £20.

[richard080561]

Just make up a StarSan solution and check the pH. It should be about 3 I think, the figure can be found on the manufacturer's website. If the pH gets too high, which it will over time chuck the solution out and mix up some more.

[Edit]
Don't be concerned if it has gone milky. It's the pH that matters

[Jocky]

I have a similar issue.

For most of my sanitisation I have a 1 litre spray bottle which I fill with a starsan mixture made with distilled or reverse osmosis water.

RO water can be got from aquarium shops or the spotless water dispensers.

Distilled water can be bought at car shops, or somewhere like APC Pure (https://apcpure.com/product/distilled-w ... ck-size=5L)

1 litre goes a long way.

Alternatively like JJSH above I use Iodophor (IO Star).

[Wozboy]

Many thanks for responding, I'm seeing loads of iodine disinfectants with varying prices and I've found Bimodex at £40 for 5 litre https://www.farmacy.co.uk/bimodex-iodop ... t-5l/p7905 is this the same thing and safe to use for brewing? I'm presuming that it'll keep and that would clearly last ages.

Io Star is more expensive at £40 for just short of 1 litre on eBay!

Any links to cheap sources gratefully received! Obviously if I need to pay for specific brewing sanitiser that's fine but if any iodine disinfectant will do then the most economically viable option to buy is preferable!

[Eric]

I'm now in the same boat, having used peracetic acid for several years find I cannot source it any more. Peracetic could be mixed with hard water with virtually no adverse affect, but I'm down to my last dregs of the stuff. Get that if you find it, a few ml in a litre of tap water kills microorganisms on contact, and it is rinse free if not overused or any surplus drained. Starsan is largely phosphoric acid, which can act as a deoxidiser, not altogether unlike peracetic, except it takes longer and works only at low pH, which is not possible if using alkaline water.

You can get deionised water at supermarkets and Halfords. Asda local to me priced 5 litres at £2.75 by observation at my last visit.

[vacant]

Cheap RO water is available from some Aquatic Departments. Bring your own container - 10p/litre e.g. here.

I collected a couple of times from our local garden centre aquatics. After being pleased with the results* I bought a £34 RO filter and produced enough the day before each brew.

* one time I built the water profile from scratch, the second time I used 10% of our very hard tap water and 90% RO - much less faff, just add gypsum to the mash.

[MashBag]

Caustic TFR, but you all knew I would say that!

My water will take your water behind the bike sheds

I don't have a limescale problem, the element in my kettle is as good as new. 11+ years and many brews later.

But.. do I have to rinse.

[keith1664]

I'm in the same situation as you Eric with Peracetic, fortunately I've managed to order some from a local Country store, unfortunately it comes in 25kg drums! Hopefully I'll be able to split it with other Norwich club members. It looks like they have a couple of stores up North.https://www.moleonline.com/deosan-activ-25kg-1003312

[keith1664]

Edit. Just had my order cancelled. Seems only certain stores can order it in!

[Jocky]

Many thanks for responding, I'm seeing loads of iodine disinfectants with varying prices and I've found Bimodex at £40 for 5 litre https://www.farmacy.co.uk/bimodex-iodop ... t-5l/p7905 is this the same thing and safe to use for brewing? I'm presuming that it'll keep and that would clearly last ages.

Io Star is more expensive at £40 for just short of 1 litre on eBay!

5 litres is a lot!

Dosage of IO Star is 1.5ml per litre of water, and here's a 946ml bottle for £21.50: https://brew-day.co.uk/product/io-star- ... tle-946ml/

Looking at the data sheet Bimodex doesn't just contain iodine, it also has sulphuric acid, phosphoric acid and a non-ionic surfactant, which should all be ok when properly diluted, but there's no guide as to the dilution rate for your purposes, so you're using it at your own risk.

[keith1664]

Following on from my posts earlier, I've just collected Peracetic from a Dairy and Livestock supplier less than 5 miles away. I suggest you see if you have similar locally Eric.

[Wozboy]

Many thanks for responding, I'm seeing loads of iodine disinfectants with varying prices and I've found Bimodex at £40 for 5 litre https://www.farmacy.co.uk/bimodex-iodop ... t-5l/p7905 is this the same thing and safe to use for brewing? I'm presuming that it'll keep and that would clearly last ages.

Io Star is more expensive at £40 for just short of 1 litre on eBay!

5 litres is a lot!

Dosage of IO Star is 1.5ml per litre of water, and here's a 946ml bottle for £21.50: https://brew-day.co.uk/product/io-star- ... tle-946ml/

Looking at the data sheet Bimodex doesn't just contain iodine, it also has sulphuric acid, phosphoric acid and a non-ionic surfactant, which should all be ok when properly diluted, but there's no guide as to the dilution rate for your purposes, so you're using it at your own risk.

Thanks for the link I bottled it with the Biomex but did get Io star at £25.99 as the cheapest I could find but I'll save that link for later!

Many thanks for all the responses really appreciated!

[Eric]

Following on from my posts earlier, I've just collected Peracetic from a Dairy and Livestock supplier less than 5 miles away. I suggest you see if you have similar locally Eric.

Thanks for that Keith. I'll have a search to see what might be found. In my childhood we had 2 dairies just 5 minutes walking from where I currently. For more than the first half of our married life we had milk delivered by a local dairy farmer, but I don't even know of a dairy farm within a half hours drive. The local farmers appear to grow wheat, barley and rape for bread, beer and biodiesel.

On a serious front, thank you, I'm prepared to drive a couple of hours both ways if it results in having peracetic acid to hand. Those who've been able to access and use the product know well of it's advantages over all other sanitisers.

[MashBag]

Am I missing something in the chemistry here?

It seems you (who I respect for your knowledge) would rather have the problem then fix it, rather than not have to problem in the first place.

As a logical joe, thatta maka no sense?