Tell me about finings

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sjg0

Tell me about finings

Post by sjg0 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:49 pm

My latest brew is just about to finish fermenting. I'm thinking about adding fining to help the beer to clear. I've read to add them at the end of the fermentation stage and a couple of days before bottling/kegging. Since the finings will make all the gunk drop to the bottom of the fermenter, will thus include the yeast thus prevent secondary fermentation once bottled?

Thanks

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by BigMouth » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:31 pm

I usually rack to secondary and cold crash that in a garage fridge at 1 Celsius for 2 weeks but am thinking about gelatine so interested in people's experience with that.

Cold crash drops lots of stuff but I still have a fair bit of yeast settlement in bottles hence the gelatine train of thought.

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by BigMouth » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:32 pm

In short there'll always be enough yeast to bottle condition.

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orlando
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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by orlando » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:48 am

BigMouth wrote:I usually rack to secondary and cold crash that in a garage fridge at 1 Celsius for 2 weeks but am thinking about gelatine so interested in people's experience with that.

Cold crash drops lots of stuff but I still have a fair bit of yeast settlement in bottles hence the gelatine train of thought.
Gelatine works brilliantly, but to get it working at its best crash cool first and add the gelatine whilst still cold, it works better on a rising heat gradient. And yes, there will always be enough yeast cells for secondary conditioning.
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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by Jocky » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:23 am

You need refrigeration to make post fermentation finings work properly.

In terms of what to use there are three options:
Isinglass, which is a pain to make up into usable form and only keeps in that form for a month;
Gelatin, which is easy to use and highly effective.
PVPP, which is effective, but you have to remove it from your beer before packaging. It's also vegan friendly.

All of the above will drop out yeast and remove chill haze.

Another option for future which doesn't require chilling, but has to be added when you put your wort into the fermenter, is Brewers Clarex, which can be purchased from the Malt Miller as NBS Clarity. It's not effective in dropping out yeast, just chill haze.

Nothing makes up for good brewing practice though - you can't polish a turd.
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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by Eadweard » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:31 am

PVPP is for removing polyphenols (tannins) not yeast.

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by PhilB » Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:47 am

Hi Orlando
orlando wrote:Gelatine works brilliantly ... it works better on a rising heat gradient.
... I agree it works brilliantly, but I've never done it that way ... I usually chill to 10C or so, then add the gelatine and keep it dropping to 0-1C ... I presume I've got that from the internet somewhere :?

Can you explain the temperature profile you would use and at what temp you would add the gelatine, please :?

Cheers, PhilB

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by orlando » Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:46 pm

PhilB wrote:
Can you explain the temperature profile you would use and at what temp you would add the gelatine, please :?

Cheers, PhilB
Well like you I heard of the technique via the internet in some way but can't remember where. The technique is very simple , chill the beer down to as low as you can get it, anywhere between 0 and 5c, leave for a minimum of 3 days but longer is better. Once time is up rack to cornie or bottling bucket containing the gelatine. I use previously boiled water that is cooled or raised to approx 65c, again have read somewhere boiling water can denature the gelatine. I then pour this in first and put the beer on top, only because it starts the mixing of the gelatine with the beer so cuts down the amount of stirring afterwards, which you should do but carefully to avoid oxygenating the beer. I tend to give it 48 hours but 24 might be enough if you are in a rush at ambient temperature. After that just follow your usual packaging practice. If your technique right from the start has ticked all the right boxes, from a longer list than this, wort in the right pH range, enough calcium, low alkalinity sparge water for Pales/Lagers, hard boil (not a one element simmer), kettle finings, fast chill, allow trub plenty of time to settle and form a filter (whirlpooling helps). As Jocky says you can't polish a turd, garbage in garbage out. After having said all that, with time everything clears of course, but by then the beer could be past its best and still produce haze in the fridge, which by the way is not the right place for beer unless it is just to cool it to circa 12c. :wink:
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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by dcq1974 » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:30 pm

I'm in complete agreement with Orlando on this.
I crash cool to 2 -3 degrees C (after 5 - 7 days fermentation and transfering to Cask/Cornie etc. along with Auxilary Sodium silicate finings) and leave for a minimum 48 hours (usually 72).
Once this cycle is complete, I add finings and raise the temperature to cellar temperature (13 degrees C). Beer is clear within 48 hours and at optimum after a further 7 days of conditioning (although like many others I use WLP002 as a house yeast as it clears very quickly and for me has the best flavour profile regarding esters, diacetyl etc.).

Orlando - I believe Gelatine is ok at the temperatures you mention (65 degrees etc.) it's the Collagen of Isinglass finings that degrades at room temperature etc. IIRC it degrades mainly to Gelatine :D
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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by PhilB » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:45 pm

Thanks Orlando and dcq for the extra detail =D>

I've been very happy with the results from my approach, but I have had (less but) some chill haze in the (relatively few) beers I tend to chill down very cold before drinking (while the cellar temps beers have been as bright as a bright thing), and I think I can see (now you've explained it, I suppose) how the approach of adding the finings, once you've induced a chill haze, might improve that :? ... I'll have to work out how to incorporate that approach into my routine and give it a go some time :wink:

Cheers, PhilB

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by orlando » Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:48 pm

The key is to first of all acknowledge that this is the end stage of a process that needs all the preceding elements/stages to be in place. Often confusion arises when you try to fix something at the end that was broken at the beginning i.e. trying to fix the wrong thing. :idea:
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Conditioning:
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Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by BigMouth » Sat Oct 08, 2016 12:14 am

Thanks Orlando and dcq!

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by rpt » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:58 pm

Can you add gelatine to the keg you are going to serve from?

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by Matt in Birdham » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:39 pm

rpt wrote:Can you add gelatine to the keg you are going to serve from?
Yes - I always do. My process is to crash after primary (no secondary), but only for a day or two (I am paranoid about oxygen). I then keg onto gelatin, prepared in the same way Orlando described. Beer will be clear in a few days, and crystal clear in a few weeks in my experience. If I really want crystal clear, bright beer (sooner than several weeks), then I add PVVP to the keg a few days after kegging (and gelatining). This works on differently charged particles than gelatin, most notably on the components of chill haze and really will drop your beer incredibly bright. I don't (and never have) filtered after PVVP but I know some recommend it. It basically drops to the bottom of the keg and you won't get it in your beer.

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Re: Tell me about finings

Post by Rhodesy » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:25 am

Matt in Birdham wrote:
rpt wrote:Can you add gelatine to the keg you are going to serve from?
Yes - I always do. My process is to crash after primary (no secondary), but only for a day or two (I am paranoid about oxygen). I then keg onto gelatin, prepared in the same way Orlando described. Beer will be clear in a few days, and crystal clear in a few weeks in my experience. If I really want crystal clear, bright beer (sooner than several weeks), then I add PVVP to the keg a few days after kegging (and gelatining). This works on differently charged particles than gelatin, most notably on the components of chill haze and really will drop your beer incredibly bright. I don't (and never have) filtered after PVVP but I know some recommend it. It basically drops to the bottom of the keg and you won't get it in your beer.
I generally follow this practice also since I started kegging, typically cold crash to as close to 3c as my fridge goes and then racked onto gelatin in the keg and let it sit there at 1c in the keezer for at least a week so more or less lagering. I have not used PVVP personally but have used Whitelabs Clarity Ferm, Brewbrite and the Malt Millers own branded "NBS Clarity' which you add when pitching the yeast. This works to great effect and Clarity Ferm/NBS Clarity also reduce gluten if you ever desire that.

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