Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

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MTW
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Re: Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

Post by MTW » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:33 pm

FG last time, with a 70.5C mash and just WLP002, 1.019 (before very slow eating away over months in the bottle; I measured 1.015 many months later!)

FG this time, with a 68C mash and WLP002 plus US-05 after 24hrs, 1.014

(The grist was 10% Caramalt and 5% Munich, 3% wheat, and the rest pale)


...so I'm hoping the plan seems to have worked, one way or the other. No adverse effect on taste, as far as I can tell. A bit cloudier than before with yeast, even 11 days on, but that will be the US-05.
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Kev888
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Re: Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

Post by Kev888 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:35 pm

I shall be interested to hear how this works out after some time in the bottle. It isn't impossible that the lower mash temperature is partly responsible for the lower FG (as the last couple of degrees up to 70c have a disproportionate effect on fermentability IMO), but on the other hand if you have cloudy yeast then likely the US-05 will have made a fair contribution too.
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Re: Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

Post by MTW » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:10 pm

Kev888 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:35 pm
I shall be interested to hear how this works out after some time in the bottle. It isn't impossible that the lower mash temperature is partly responsible for the lower FG (as the last couple of degrees up to 70c have a disproportionate effect on fermentability IMO), but on the other hand if you have cloudy yeast then likely the US-05 will have made a fair contribution too.
So will I. I guess at 1.014 there's a lot less left of anything though, to go any further. By the way, the OGs of both brews were the same, which I was quite chuffed with alone! Starters as identical as possible; temperatures nearly identical.

I'm certainly not deaf to the experience of fellow brewers like Dennis who don't appear to have suffered from bottle-attenuation with 002, to coin a term. Whether there was 10% cara and mashes in excess of 68C in their equation, I don't know. My only other 70C mash was a Lagunitas IPA attempt (as per one of the old Jamil shows) and felt that did go a bit in the bottle, but not to the extent of my other one, but then it didn't have as much cara. Not enough experience of 002 or 68+ mashes to be sure on my part, but plenty of reports of 'BA' with 002 around elsewhere.

I guess I will have to do one at 68 with just 002 one day...
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Kev888
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Re: Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

Post by Kev888 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:45 pm

I guess there are all sorts of things that could contribute to the slow/prolonged finish, so perhaps it isn't too surprising that experiences differ a bit. FWIW I hadn't run across this before, I don't get it noticeably in kegs (and often have a fair bit of munich in the mix), but of course that is a different situation again.

I also find that I have to mash quite warm (68c minimum) before WLP002 will begin to curb its attenuation greatly. It doesn't seem to need very much encouragement to go far further/lower than desired, though in your case perhaps more slowly. I wonder if it is on the cusp of being able to use more of the complex sugars, even though nominally a low attenuator.
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Re: Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

Post by aamcle » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:38 pm

What about WLP090 San Diego Super Yeast? It attenuates well up to 83% according to it's speck sheet and it floculates well.

Aggg too late I missed the second page of posts.

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Re: Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

Post by Kev888 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:22 pm

FWIW I just checked the gravity of a slightly experimental WLP002 bitter that has been in the keg at room temperature for a few weeks. It was also in the FV for a few weeks (with stable SG) before kegging so I was fairly confident of it having finished. The FG at kegging was about 1.020.. and it is still that now.

However, there 'is' a little condition and it was neither primed nor force-carbonated. So, it must have carried on working at least a little bit more after kegging, just not enough to detect on the cheap hydrometer. It is of little note in the keg, but I can imagine that in a bottle, if also primed and given longer, this could be much more noticeable.
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Re: Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

Post by PeeBee » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Kev888 wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:45 pm
...
I also find that I have to mash quite warm (68c minimum) before WLP002 will begin to curb its attenuation greatly. It doesn't seem to need very much encouragement to go far further/lower than desired, though in your case perhaps more slowly. I wonder if it is on the cusp of being able to use more of the complex sugars, even though nominally a low attenuator.
Must agree with that! My last bitter brewed with WLP002 (drinking now) was mashed at 64-65C and has attenuated to 84%. Certainly wont be looking to try co-pitching WLP002 with anything. It has had two weeks. I might use a higher temperature mash next time.

But I'm surprised that beer hasn't turned out thin. Maybe the yeast is responsible for the very adequate body and mouthfeel? FG 1.006 (OG 1.038).

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Re: Best yeast to co-pitch with WLP002?

Post by Kev888 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:45 pm

Yes WLP002 has quite a wide range, IIRC I've had it attenuating between about 63% and 82% under different conditions of grist, mash and fermentation. As you say, it doesn't seem overly dry even at the upper end.

It is extremely versatile, though I suppose this also means relatively minor brewing differences can have more extreme effects too. I admit to not always anticipating the FG as closely as I'm used to with other strains, especially on new recipes.
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