Salifert Kit Confusion

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Aleman
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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by Aleman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 am

Use 4ml of the check solution instead of water. As you know the Alkalinity of the check solution you know how much KH solution you should add to get the colour change, if significantly under or over then your kit is past it's best. If spot on, then your process is correct, and something has changed. At this point test water, treat with acid, test water ... compare what you expected with what you got.

There are a few suppliers of 'CRS' two I know about are Murphy's and Niche Solutions ... I have had recourse to doubt the veracity of some of their data ;)

I know that Murphy's AMS has been quoted as neutralising 184 or 194 mg/l of alkalinity ... Personally I would always test each batch, you know what happens when you assume ...
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Kev888
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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by Kev888 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:30 am

Yes, as Aleman says, just test the check solution rather than your water. The check solution has it's alkalinity specified on the bottle, and your test results should pretty much agree with that (maybe +/- a tiny syringe increment).
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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by MyQul » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:47 pm

Aleman wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 am
Use 4ml of the check solution instead of water. As you know the Alkalinity of the check solution you know how much KH solution you should add to get the colour change, if significantly under or over then your kit is past it's best. If spot on, then your process is correct, and something has changed. At this point test water, treat with acid, test water ... compare what you expected with what you got.

There are a few suppliers of 'CRS' two I know about are Murphy's and Niche Solutions ... I have had recourse to doubt the veracity of some of their data ;)

I know that Murphy's AMS has been quoted as neutralising 184 or 194 mg/l of alkalinity ... Personally I would always test each batch, you know what happens when you assume ...
Thanks for pointing out how to use the test solution. Well it's not the kit as the the test solution is just about bang on what is says it should be,so it must be the acid itself. I cant trust the litte brupaks table like used to now, so do you (or again, anyone else for that matter) have some maths/methodology (the simpler the better) for working out how much of this acid to add once I know the starting point alkalinity ppm of my water?

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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by Eric » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:13 pm

MyQul wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:47 pm
Aleman wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 am
Use 4ml of the check solution instead of water. As you know the Alkalinity of the check solution you know how much KH solution you should add to get the colour change, if significantly under or over then your kit is past it's best. If spot on, then your process is correct, and something has changed. At this point test water, treat with acid, test water ... compare what you expected with what you got.

There are a few suppliers of 'CRS' two I know about are Murphy's and Niche Solutions ... I have had recourse to doubt the veracity of some of their data ;)

I know that Murphy's AMS has been quoted as neutralising 184 or 194 mg/l of alkalinity ... Personally I would always test each batch, you know what happens when you assume ...
Thanks for pointing out how to use the test solution. Well it's not the kit as the the test solution is just about bang on what is says it should be,so it must be the acid itself. I cant trust the litte brupaks table like used to now, so do you (or again, anyone else for that matter) have some maths/methodology (the simpler the better) for working out how much of this acid to add once I know the starting point alkalinity ppm of my water?
You wrote that 0.87ml AMS/ litre of liquor reduced initial alkalinity to that suitable for brewing and 0.87ml of AMS would typically reduce alkalinity by 160mg/l as CaCO3. So I would suggest your previous alkalinity would probably be between 180mg/l and 210mg/l.
Use the Salifert kit to measure your water's current alkalinity and if it is less than 160mg/l CaCO3, that could be the problem rather than the AMS or whatever acid it is.
Measure a litre of water and add half a ml of acid, stir and leave it for a while before measuring alkalinity again. If the indicator immediately turns red, repeat with quarter of a ml of the acid.
Subtract the two alkalinities and multipy by two if 0.5 ml was added or four if 0.25ml to arrive at the amount of alkalinity 1ml of the acid will neutralise. I've used 183mg as the quantity of CaCO3 1ml of AMS would neutralise.
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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by MyQul » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:33 pm

Eric wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:13 pm
MyQul wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:47 pm
Aleman wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 am
Use 4ml of the check solution instead of water. As you know the Alkalinity of the check solution you know how much KH solution you should add to get the colour change, if significantly under or over then your kit is past it's best. If spot on, then your process is correct, and something has changed. At this point test water, treat with acid, test water ... compare what you expected with what you got.

There are a few suppliers of 'CRS' two I know about are Murphy's and Niche Solutions ... I have had recourse to doubt the veracity of some of their data ;)

I know that Murphy's AMS has been quoted as neutralising 184 or 194 mg/l of alkalinity ... Personally I would always test each batch, you know what happens when you assume ...
Thanks for pointing out how to use the test solution. Well it's not the kit as the the test solution is just about bang on what is says it should be,so it must be the acid itself. I cant trust the litte brupaks table like used to now, so do you (or again, anyone else for that matter) have some maths/methodology (the simpler the better) for working out how much of this acid to add once I know the starting point alkalinity ppm of my water?
You wrote that 0.87ml AMS/ litre of liquor reduced initial alkalinity to that suitable for brewing and 0.87ml of AMS would typically reduce alkalinity by 160mg/l as CaCO3. So I would suggest your previous alkalinity would probably be between 180mg/l and 210mg/l.
Use the Salifert kit to measure your water's current alkalinity and if it is less than 160mg/l CaCO3, that could be the problem rather than the AMS or whatever acid it is.
Measure a litre of water and add half a ml of acid, stir and leave it for a while before measuring alkalinity again. If the indicator immediately turns red, repeat with quarter of a ml of the acid.
Subtract the two alkalinities and multipy by two if 0.5 ml was added or four if 0.25ml to arrive at the amount of alkalinity 1ml of the acid will neutralise. I've used 183mg as the quantity of CaCO3 1ml of AMS would neutralise.
Cheers Eric. Your assumption was correct whenever I previously tested my water it was usually between 180ppm and 200ppm. Although I did test my water on the eve of my OP (last sunday) and it was 171 ppm.

I am brewing Monday so will try out your method on Sunday eve when I prepare my water

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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by Aleman » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:37 pm

Water is just too variable, even when in the past it has been constant!

It's caught me out in the past.
[url=http://forum.craft%20brewing.org.uk]The statement You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink has a direct corollary in Humans . . . . . . .

"You can give someone all the information . . . . but you can't make them think!!" [/url]

The Effinbrewery Web Site

MyQul
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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by MyQul » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:23 am

So I tested my water before brewing this morning and it was 165 ppm. Doing some calculations, my acid strips out 219.1ppm/1L. So much higher then my water. No wonder my first test with this acid went pink immediatly

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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by MTW » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:44 pm

Just to say, I ran my Salifert kit alongside someone else's more expensive Hanna kit yesterday at a co brew with others, and we were within 4ppm of each other both before and after treatment.
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Re: Salifert Kit Confusion

Post by Kev888 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:12 pm

Yes, the salifert kits were tested some years back and found to be very trustworthy, better than some other brands, which is mostly why they became 'the' kit recommendation on this forum. Certainly more than accurate enough for home-brew purposes if used correctly.
Kev

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