Southern water

[bitter_dave]

This information might be useful for someone supplied by Southern Water.

I have been after data on the hardness of my water for water treatment purposes for a while now, as I think this is one area where I can make improvements to my beer. Anyway, Southern water have just added this information to their website:

http://www.southernwater.co.uk/

Click drinking water quality, and add your postcode and it gives the hardness of your water in CAC03.

Using this data you can then work out how much Brupaks CRS and DLS to add. See:

http://www.brupaks.com/brewing-aids.htm

and/or

http://craft brewing.org.uk/bc/index.html (go to subject index, click forward a page, then open the water fact sheet by James McCrorie).

My water has an alkalinity of 219 CAC03, which I gather places it in firmly in the 'hard' category; for Bitters and Pales the recommended amount is apparently under 50.

Should be interesting to see what difference this treatment will make to my next beer.

[ColinKeb]

severn trent do this as well , you can print off full report.

[Scooby]

I found a 2003 Southern Water report, the last to list total alkalinity I believe. I think said the Southern Water region was 30ppm, although not according to the link you give.

Thames water don't list total alkalinity and speaking to a local brewer regarding water treatment he said that the reason was because it varies so much

There are other things relevant to brewers that aren't listed, the only thing I learnt was that the total hardness as CaCO3 is 258ppm so I have moderately hard water and that I already knew

[oxford brewer]

My area for Thames Water gives me 292.5ppm of CaCO3....like a dog from Eastenders.....Wellard.
Thames water

[Totem]

Im in water quality for 3valleys water, so can get all the info i need, not that i know what to do with it in relation to brewing.

[bitter_dave]

Erm, the southern water link above doesn't give the level of alkalinity as CAC03 needed to use the Brupaks instructions for CRS/DLS; it gives the level of hardness as CAC03, which I've been informed is not the same thing. Sorry if I got anyone's hopes up. Perhaps I should have studied chemistry rather than politics - but at least I understand why Marx thought capitalism was going to collapse - very useful in the making of beer

[bitter_dave]

Why was that then

Oh sh1t I've forgotton

[bitter_dave]

Hardness is commonly confused with alkalinity. Alkalinity is a measure of the amount of acid (hydrogen ion) water can absorb (buffer) before achieving a designated pH. The problem relates to the term used to report both measures, CaCO3 in mg/l. Just as with hardness, mg/l CaCO3 alkalinity is a general term used to express the total quantity of base (hydrogen ion acceptors) present. If limestone is responsible for both hardness and alkalinity, these values will be similar if not identical. However, where sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) is responsible for high alkalinity it is possible to have low hardness and low calcium. Acid ground or well water has little or no alkalinity and can have low or high hardness.

So if your on lime stone you can use total hardness...so the brewers in Portland should be OK...(Portland Stone is lime stone isnt it?)

Thanks for that Daab.. that offers some hope anyway The description of my water from the website is:

Your water is pumped from underground sources in the chalk at Southover, Balsdean, Newmarket, Patcham, Mile Oak, Goldstone Hove and Housedean

Chalk is a type of limestone... isn't it? (somehow I don't think it's going to be that simple )

[bitter_dave]

Just a quick update on this CRS / DLS thread.

To recap, I've used CRS and DLS based on the level of hardness as CAC03 instead of acidity as CACO3 by accident (the acidity value is not supplied by the water company). Since this thread I've made a couple of beers assuming the CAC03 acidity was the same as the CAC03 hardness.

The beer which is matured has come out very nicely, but I forgot to measure the mash ph. For the other beer, which has just fermented, I measured the mash ph and it came out what looked like dead on 5.2. (Another beer which i made some time ago (a TTL clone) without any water treatments tasted extremely chalky.)

Based on the mash Ph it would therefore seem that in my instance acidity as CAC03 is similar to hardness as CAC03. I'm just reporting this in case it is of interest to anyone with very chalk water, like mine.

[moco]

I am starting out with a kit (see viewtopic.php?t=5357) and live in a Southern Water area also, in fact it looks like the same source as yours Dave:

CaCO3 225

Ca mg/l 90

As I am about to make a bitter kit - should I worry about treating the water with CRS and DLS??

Thanks...

[bitter_dave]

Hi Moco - welcome to the forum Nice to see a local brewer.

I confess that my understanding of water chemistry, or any kind of natural science, is very weak (as you may have gathered from this thread ). I've found that CRS/DLS has helped my full mash beers, but this seems to be as a result of luck rather than design; I'm just not sure what the consequences would be for a kit, or how much you would add.

I'd try a kit without CRS and DLS and work from there. The first kit I made I didn't treat the water at all and it turned out great (woodforde wherry). I added a little CRS to my last kit, but I make kits so infrequently I'm not sure it made any difference, although it turned out nice.

Perhaps crush half a campden tablet into the water you use, though, as this is an easy way to remove chlorine.

By the way, if you fancy brewing from grain and want to see a full mash brew, give me a shout

[moco]

I thought about boiling the water but only have a 6l pan max, and was short on time. If you leave it to sit overnight to cool is there a sterilisation problem?

In the end I went with just the half camden tablet, so a hard-water ale it is.

Dave, I'd LOVE to come and watch you brew sometime. Let me know when you might be next doing one - how will you manage the summer heat?

[bitter_dave]

Dave, I'd LOVE to come and watch you brew sometime. Let me know when you might be next doing one - how will you manage the summer heat?

Good stuff. I should be brewing in a few weeks or so, so I'll let you know. I'm just going to avoid brewing during heat waves and use wet towels if neccessary to cool the fermenter down... last year I stopped brewing for the summer, so we'll see if I get away with it