Lowering Sparge PH

[RabMaxwell]

Hello all i am getting a little order together for Hop&Grape.I want to give lowering my sparge water PH a go with acid. I fill my HLT with approx 110 Litres what type of acid & what procedure for additions should i use

[RabMaxwell]

Cheers Daab i have just finished reading up on the matter on the net. I think it might be beneficial when i am making low colour pale beers to lower my sparge Ph. But if you remember i have very soft water. So when making dark beers i add the dark grains at the end just before the sparge.As adding the dark grains at the end will lower the ph of the mash anyway would i be better off just treating my sparge water for my pale beers

[RabMaxwell]

Nice to see someone else using temperature control. Are you going to insulate your old fermenter or splash out on those nice shinny stainless thermo box jobs

[ColinKeb]

could you just use gypsum and epsom salts instead of CRS ?

[mysterio]

Have you ruled out using 5.2 stabiliser Rab? I've seen my efficiencies raised consistantly with this stuff.

I used to use phosphoric acid (intended for acid washing of yeast) to adjust mash & sparge Ph but it was a bit of a guessing game. If you do use straight acid, a little goes a long way.

[RabMaxwell]

Very interesting Mysterio i think we have similar water. I have thought about PH 5.2 but read about it not working with soft water like ourse.How much do you add to your brews & do you add to your sparge water. Also i normally add 4 tbs of flaked calcium chloride to my mash 110 litres to enhance malt flavour. I think i read in previous posts you also use calcium chloride do you still use it along with Ph 5.2 what's your procedure

[ColinKeb]

t;]could you just use gypsum and epsom salts instead of CRS ?

You can in the mash, you probably can in the sparge water but you don't want to go adding too much gypsum as it brings out a harsh bitterness from the hops, i'd stick to adding just enough to the MT to bring the ph down to 5.3.

okay Daab , in equal quantities ? (gypsum/epsom)

[mysterio]

Very interesting Mysterio i think we have similar water. I have thought about PH 5.2 but read about it not working with soft water like ourse.How much do you add to your brews & do you add to your sparge water. Also i normally add 4 tbs of flaked calcium chloride to my mash 110 litres to enhance malt flavour. I think i read in previous posts you also use calcium chloride do you still use it along with Ph 5.2 what's your procedure

I wish I could give you some conclusive advice here but I'm still very much in the experimental stage.

Previously I would dose with some CaCl, just because I know we have soft water and I thought it wouldnt do any harm to the mash to have some calcium ions in there.

With the 5.2, the first time I used it I was also using gypsum in the boil because it supposedly brings out the hop bitterness. My efficiency leapt up but I also tasted a (very subtle) salty note in the beer. After tasting some straight gypsum I reckon that this is the source of the salty flavour. My latest bitter uses 5.2 and no gypsum so we'll see.

[delboy]

I've been reading on another forum that pH 5.2 is supposed to reduce the harsh bitterness that you can get in high IBU brews (something to do with utilisation at that pH) and that you tend to get a smoother kind of bitterness when using it.
Anyone else know about this??

[ColinKeb]

I would stick to using gypsum in the mash or put your hand down the back of the sofa and dig out £1.99 for some CRS

woah ! £1.99 is big money in this part of the country

yep I agree, next brew i will get hold of some of this CRS stuff and give it a go. wont have time before monday tho. Im in the middle of an election campaign so fitting brewing in is a nightmare at the moment, there might even be a week where I dont have any beer !

[Jim]

I've been reading on another forum that pH 5.2 is supposed to reduce the harsh bitterness that you can get in high IBU brews (something to do with utilisation at that pH) and that you tend to get a smoother kind of bitterness when using it.
Anyone else know about this??

I've not heard that before, although having the wort at the correct pH is obviously desirable. Of course as we know, pH is just a way of measuring acidity/alkalinity and once you boil the hops the pH of the wort drops so dramatically it's hard to imagine that the mash pH won't be swamped completely.

The bitter taste produced by the hops is just the acidity extracted from them. Mostly alpha acids and some beta acids (if I sound as though I know what I'm talking about here, by the way, it's just a coincidence!), so I'd like to know where exactly harsh hop bitterness comes from and how the pH of the wort before the hops are added can influence it.

[delboy]

you could argue then that the pH 5.2 was buffering the pH/acidity of the alpha and beta acids therefore not giving you as much bitterness.