Where to get my Water analysed?

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
Cxp073
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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by Cxp073 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:35 pm

Does wallybrew supply bicarbonate levels? From what I understand this is needed, but every service I find in the UK doesn't state that it gives you bicarbonate....

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by Aleman » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:36 pm

Neil provides alkalinity expressed as CaCO3 . . . An actual bicarbonate figure is difficult to determine as it varies with pH due to the whole carbonate equilibrium thing in water, and most brewing software can handle it either as bicarbonate or carbonate . . . you multiply by 1.22 to go from carbonate to bicarbonate (depending on pH :D )

This is my report from him for the last few months

Water supply code: Z070

Code: Select all

              2015                                                        2014
              17th Jul  26th Jun  28th May  26th Mar  21st Feb  21st Jan  22nd Nov  28th Oct  11th Feb 
Calcium    -    27.6    24.5      23.1      17.8      20.6     14.8       30.8      35.7      24.3
Magnesium  -     5.1     4.3       4.0       3.0       3.3      2.1        6.9       8.3       3.1
Sodium     -    14.2    16.6      13.0      11.3      12.0      8.2       15.4      16.2      12.0  
Potassium  -     0.6     0.7       0.7       0.7       0.9     <0.5        0.6       1.0       0.7

Sulphate   -    43.7    50.3      44.1      33.3      37.3     27.4       50.6      68.2      42.8
Chloride   -    12.4    12.0      12.5      12.0      11.3      8.5       11.7      15.6      11.1
Phosphate  -     5.5     5.2      7.0        6.1       6.8      5.9        6.2       6.2       4.7
Nitrate    -     1.6     1.5       1.7       1.9       1.7      1.3        1.7       2.1       1.3

Alkalinity -    52.0    44.0      34.0      30.0      33.0     18.0       67.0      67.0      32.0  

[url=http://forum.craft%20brewing.org.uk]The statement You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink has a direct corollary in Humans . . . . . . .

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Cxp073
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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by Cxp073 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:22 pm

Aleman wrote:Neil provides alkalinity expressed as CaCO3 . . . An actual bicarbonate figure is difficult to determine as it varies with pH due to the whole carbonate equilibrium thing in water, and most brewing software can handle it either as bicarbonate or carbonate . . . you multiply by 1.22 to go from carbonate to bicarbonate (depending on pH :D )

This is my report from him for the last few months

Water supply code: Z070

Code: Select all

              2015                                                        2014
              17th Jul  26th Jun  28th May  26th Mar  21st Feb  21st Jan  22nd Nov  28th Oct  11th Feb 
Calcium    -    27.6    24.5      23.1      17.8      20.6     14.8       30.8      35.7      24.3
Magnesium  -     5.1     4.3       4.0       3.0       3.3      2.1        6.9       8.3       3.1
Sodium     -    14.2    16.6      13.0      11.3      12.0      8.2       15.4      16.2      12.0  
Potassium  -     0.6     0.7       0.7       0.7       0.9     <0.5        0.6       1.0       0.7

Sulphate   -    43.7    50.3      44.1      33.3      37.3     27.4       50.6      68.2      42.8
Chloride   -    12.4    12.0      12.5      12.0      11.3      8.5       11.7      15.6      11.1
Phosphate  -     5.5     5.2      7.0        6.1       6.8      5.9        6.2       6.2       4.7
Nitrate    -     1.6     1.5       1.7       1.9       1.7      1.3        1.7       2.1       1.3

Alkalinity -    52.0    44.0      34.0      30.0      33.0     18.0       67.0      67.0      32.0  

Is carbonate the same as 'alkalinity as CaC03'?

I've contacted Wallybrew and am just awaiting a reply - then I'll be sending my water off (Leeds) for analysis.

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by Aleman » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:22 pm

Yes.

BUT it's not the same as hardness as CaCO3.

The two things are completely different but just for fun the convention is to report them as if all the hardness or alkalinity was provided by calcium carbonate . . . Confused . . . You will be!
[url=http://forum.craft%20brewing.org.uk]The statement You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink has a direct corollary in Humans . . . . . . .

"You can give someone all the information . . . . but you can't make them think!!" [/url]

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by Cxp073 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:41 pm

Aleman - confused, definitely! But I fee I'm on the right track. I figure that when I get the water report and plug it into BruNWater I'll have lots of questions ;)

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by MillmoorRon » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:03 pm

Well, I'm confused too!

If carbonate is the same as 'alkalinity as CaC03' as stated above...

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/water.html

The first thing on here is alkalinity and when I enter it the carbonate field is automatically seeded with a different value!

Then when I enter the other data from my water report it then tells me (I think) that the ions are not balanced.

My water report (Yorkshire Water) doesn't have a figure for carbonates.

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by Aleman » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:26 pm

It's not a calculator I use, so I can't really comment, but I am assuming that Graham is basing the Carbonate value as the carbonate component of the 'As Calcium Carbonate' figure you enter as alkalinity, and removing the 'theoretical' calcium component.

Water company reports rarely balance ;) as they are either maximum / minimum or average figures of a number of readings over a period
[url=http://forum.craft%20brewing.org.uk]The statement You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink has a direct corollary in Humans . . . . . . .

"You can give someone all the information . . . . but you can't make them think!!" [/url]

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by barneey » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:04 pm

Someone should invent a water calculator that just deals with Alkalinity & the major components. [-o< :-$ without all the other tosh that goes with other calculators.

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by MillmoorRon » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:11 pm

Thanks. I did use average figures and there is quite a range on some of them!

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by Dave S » Sun May 01, 2016 9:25 am

barneey wrote:Someone should invent a water calculator that just deals with Alkalinity & the major components. [-o< :-$ without all the other tosh that goes with other calculators.
Aye, such a thing would be great.
Best wishes

Dave

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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by orlando » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:59 am

Dave S wrote:
barneey wrote:Someone should invent a water calculator that just deals with Alkalinity & the major components. [-o< :-$ without all the other tosh that goes with other calculators.
Aye, such a thing would be great.

I would use it. :D
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Re: Where to get my Water analysed?

Post by Kev888 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:22 pm

Me too. People are generally just trying to make good beer and (for most) the water treatment needn't be very extensive to achieve that. However, the complexity of some calculators (and books) put me off getting into water treatment for years. There are some things to learn obviously, but not the overwhelming mountain it seemed - unless you want/need to become particularly advanced about things, like closely duplicating existing water profiles and so on.
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