Would you say my additions are right...

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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chris172
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Would you say my additions are right...

Post by chris172 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:34 pm

Brewing a Hopback Summer Lightening tomorrow and wondered if my additions are ok?

any advice appreciated.

I now have a PH Meter so fingers crossed with all those additions I should get it spot on!!!!

TIA
Chris
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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by barneey » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:07 pm

Nice to see someone using GW calculator, Alk should be down to approx. 25 with that CRS treatment & the rest looks fine to me, nice bit of Sulphate in there. Enjoy your brewday.
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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by chris172 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:05 am

Thanks for the feedback. Marked down the residual as I'm doing a full volume mash in the BM as advised elsewhere.

However... missed the PH was 5.52 :(

How can you reduce it while mashing or is that not possible? did try a little more gypsum but that didn't do anything. Tried after 10mins, 20mins and at end all was the same.
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Aleman
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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by Aleman » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:19 am

chris172 wrote:However... missed the PH was 5.52 :(
That is a perfectly acceptable pH, anywhere between 5.3 and 5.8 is acceptable, and will make good if not great beer.
chris172 wrote:How can you reduce it while mashing or is that not possible? did try a little more gypsum but that didn't do anything. Tried after 10mins, 20mins and at end all was the same.
You can't really, you could try adding extra acid, but then you have to stir the shit out of it to get it to mix properly, then when you take the pH you find it's fallen too far, so you have to bring it up, and you end up chasing your tail to hit a 'perfect' pH which is really only an estimated (guestimated) predicted pH. Remember it for next time, and next time reduce the alkalinity a bit more.

My first wheat beer in the BM had a pH of 5.6 with an alkalinity of 30, a little higher than I like for my pale beers, so when I brewed it again, I dropped the alkalinity to 15, and pH was 5.4, remaining water treatment stayed the same.

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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by barneey » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:20 am

chris172 wrote:Thanks for the feedback. Marked down the residual as I'm doing a full volume mash in the BM as advised elsewhere.

However... missed the PH was 5.52 :(

How can you reduce it while mashing or is that not possible? did try a little more gypsum but that didn't do anything. Tried after 10mins, 20mins and at end all was the same.
Your be chasing your tail if you try and alter during the mash, pH is an ever changing value :wink:

Important was the pH reading taking at room temp 20 to 25c? so it didn't rely on ATC too much.

Your pH of 5.52 is still with the range so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

If you brew again try dropping the Alkalinity (from my estimated 25) to a lower value say 10 to 25 that should drop the mash pH
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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by barneey » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:20 am

Ahhh beaten to it :D
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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by chris172 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:25 am

Thanks for the advice... and relief the PH was ok.

I already set my residual to 10 so not sure how low to set it then to get closer...
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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by Aleman » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:12 pm

chris172 wrote:I already set my residual to 10 so not sure how low to set it then to get closer...
I'm not sure what Graham's calculator means by 'Residual Alkalinity'. What I understand to be Residual Alkalinity (RA) is that it is a calculated value taking into account hydrogen carbonate, calcium and magnesium levels

The formula is RA = KH - (CH + 0.5 * MH)/3.5 where
KH = Carbonate 'Hardness'
CH = Calcium 'Hardness'
MH = Magnesium 'Hardness' (All as meq/L)

Now I don't actually care what the residual alkalinity value is, I care about what the real measured alkalinity is after treatment after all if you have low bicarbonate and high calcium/magnesium it is possible to have a low or negative 'Residual Alkalinity' - Burton being a classic case, which has a residual alkalinity value similar to Plzen, but the water profiles are miles apart. (Edit: Actually I ought to check that but given the high calcium, magnesium and moderate carbonate at Burton, and low calcium magnesium and carbonate at Plzen, its likely),

So when I treat my water, I measure the alkalinity before hand, it's normally around 30-35mg/l, I determine where I would like it to be, so for my wheat beer I need it to be 15mg/l. I calculate how much acid I need to add, add it, and give it 30 minutes to work. Then I measure the alkalinity again to check that it's where I want it.

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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by barneey » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:22 pm

If you are brewing the same beer again try the following:-

Assuming that your water is the exactly the same profile.

Starting Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 = 112.

Treat 32L with 17ml of CRS = Total Alkalinity as CaCO3 = 15

To achieve a Sulphate of 272 & Chloride of 136 (2:1) add 8.9g of Gypsum & 4.3g of Calcium Chloride.

Let us know if the mash pH has dropped.

Important measure the Alkalinity before and after acid addition.
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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by BenB » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:49 pm

I've always assumed in that calculator that it actually means "remaining alkalinity" rather than RA as per Kolbach. Might be wrong though... that's just how I've read it.

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Re: Would you say my additions are right...

Post by chris172 » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:10 pm

Thanks again... My water is from a report from a sample I sent to Wallybrew recently. TBH it wasn't that far off my supplier report so good to know.

Water chemistry is all double dutch to me, I don't seem to understand much now, something to do with age :oops:
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