Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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darkisland

Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

Post by darkisland » Wed Jun 22, 2016 5:55 pm

...my question is, what style of beer would the Saka water suit? I'm not really one for fine tuning water chemistry but I like pretty much all beer :)

So, the composition is:-

Calcium...................... 29.5
Bicarbonate................ 110
Magnesium................. 3.9
Sulphate...................... 8.5
Sodium........................ 5.3
Chloride....................... 1.2
Potassium................... 0.2
Nitrate.......................... 1.9
Silicic Acid................. 15.6
pH............................... 8.2 (seems quite high to me)

Is it water that would be good for anything in particular?

Dave S
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Re: Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

Post by Dave S » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:43 pm

darkisland wrote:...my question is, what style of beer would the Saka water suit? I'm not really one for fine tuning water chemistry but I like pretty much all beer :)

So, the composition is:-

Calcium...................... 29.5
Bicarbonate................ 110
Magnesium................. 3.9
Sulphate...................... 8.5
Sodium........................ 5.3
Chloride....................... 1.2
Potassium................... 0.2
Nitrate.......................... 1.9
Silicic Acid................. 15.6
pH............................... 8.2 (seems quite high to me)

Is it water that would be good for anything in particular?
As it is ,that water is not much good for any style of beer:

1. the calcium level is too low, needs to be 100 or more. This is important for all brewing processes from mashing through to fermentation.
2. bicarbonate is OK for dark beers but not for pale ales - needs to be around 25-50.
3. sulphate and chloride levels need building up.
4. the pH isn't so important, it's the pH of the mash that matters.
5. don't know what effect silicic acid would have on things.
6. the other salts look OK, though magnesium might benefit from a small increase to say 5 or 6

So for a pale ale you would need to:

1. reduce the bicarbonate. do this by boiling, or preferably by using acid(s) - CRS, Sulphuric or Hydrochloric, having due regard for safety. These will also increase your sulphate/chloride levels.
2. increase calcium levels using gypsum and/or calcium chloride. These will increase your sulphate/chloride levels further

Typical sulphate:chloride ratio for a pale ale might be 200:100 mg/l

You might take a look at Graham's water calculator on here
Best wishes

Dave

darkisland

Re: Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

Post by darkisland » Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:50 pm

Fair enough, I have gypsum. What would you recommend in terms of acids? There is AMS (CRS) available from malt miller, that's where I tend to get my ingredients from.

What about a Porter/stout? Any particular treatment that I'd be looking for?

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Eric
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Re: Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

Post by Eric » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:48 pm

It's a bit like a very dilute Andrew's Liver Salts without the sodium.
But seriously it's very likely your tapwater will require less treatment. Do you know what's in it?
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

darkisland

Re: Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

Post by darkisland » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:31 pm

Not a clue, and it seems to change weekly, sometimes there is a chlorine taste, sometimes not, sometimes a slight metallic taste sometimes not. I'm not sure I would trust a water analysis as being up to date.

Water treatment is just something I've never really bothered about in the past, I really should.

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Re: Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

Post by Eric » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:44 am

Well you can make beer with all kinds of water, but few waters are perfect for the style of beer the brewer wants.
Treating water is a lot easier, takes only a few minutes, compared with the hours of toil on an all grain brewday. The problem facing everyone is knowing what their water contains, what your water should contain for the type of beer you are brewing and how it can be adjusted. Then, when you think you know what to, others tell you you mustn't do this and you mustn't do that because they, for whatever reason, don't.

Dave has made a very good list of what brewing water should contain, so maybe getting some idea of what is in your tapwater is the starting point to find what adjustment might benefit you beers before you give up on it or go headlong into the chemistry.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

darkisland

Re: Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

Post by darkisland » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:34 am

Thanks for the reply, I've always brewed with bottled water before because I really, REALLY don't like our tap water. There are some days when it's not even completely clear, there are occasionally days when it's slightly brownish. The water company has officially stated that it's completely safe to drink and I believe that's true...but, it's ghastly tasting.

I've played around with the water additions calculator on this site, done a bit of reading and I'm getting my head round it, it's not actually as horribly complicated as I thought. I am now aware there is no such thing as a 'perfect' profile, so next brew I'll take a few extra minutes to make some water additions...at the end of the day, an extra 5 minutes onto brewday and a handful of cheap ingredients to get my beer as good as it can be seems worth it.

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Re: Been offered a bulk buy of cheap Saka mineral water...

Post by Eric » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:56 pm

Seems I won't be able to convert you to mains water. Brown you say, sounds like it comes off peat moorland, which if it did usually means it has little else in it.
Well good luck, a lot of people use bottled water these days, I can't remember them bottling the stuff when I started as it was never an option I recall. I suppose you might blend some of that Saka water with Ashbeck to get the correct level of alkalinity and then raise the calcium to the required level with gypsum or calcium chloride flake in a proportion that would give the desired flavour profile.
Good luck.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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