confused, what should i brew?

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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chris246810

confused, what should i brew?

Post by chris246810 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:09 pm

been trying to get my head around the whole water treatment thing, read through john palmers book and watched some videos on the subject but just cant seem to get my head around the subject of water treatment.

could somebody kindly have a look at my local water report and tell me which styles of beer i would likely have best success without having to treat my water so i can get some beer going and try and figure out what im doing before moving onto styles which will require treatment.

https://www.south-staffs-water.co.uk/me ... ire-sp.pdf

website says CaCO3 is 217.3

BenB

Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by BenB » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:14 pm

There's not really enough information to go on. It looks like your water is quite stable (in as much as the parameters don't seem to change that much) but you really want to know calcium, magnesium and alkalinity levels which seem to be missing in that pdf.

I suspect most people would suggest at the very least getting a Salifert alkalinity test kit and checking alkalinity before each brew and preferably sending a water sample to Wallybrew on this forum to get your water properly analysed.

Water companies just want to prove they're not poisoning you and they really don't care too much about fluctuations in mineral levels as long as they're "in range".

chris246810

Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by chris246810 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:38 pm

Thanks ben, i`ll add the salifert alkalinity test to my shopping list, just had a look and notice they do a calcium and magnesium test kit too, should i also get these then as the details arent on the water report?

any idea how much the water analysis costs from wallybrew? , ive seen one somewhere while browsing, think it was about £26, i presume they would do the same tests.

BrannigansLove
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Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by BrannigansLove » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:44 pm

1. Download Bru'n Water, and look at what that uses for inputs.
2. Contact the water board's customer service team, and request the values used in Bru'n Water (I just explained that it was for home brewing and they happily provided them).
3. Have a go at using them in Bru'n Water, and if you have any issues, ask on here.

I contact Severn Trent every 3-6 months to update the values. Luckily mine don't seem to change much.

chris246810

Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by chris246810 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:00 pm

even better, if i can find out what i need to know for free by calling them, ill give that a try

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orlando
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Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by orlando » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:02 am

This thread is a good starting point. A specific brewers report from an analyst you can trust is really valuable, that is your best starting point.
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chris246810

Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by chris246810 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:59 am

I've messaged wally brew but he said he's away til september, might just try a brew without any water treatment, just run through my carbon filter and see how it turns out.

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orlando
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Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by orlando » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:15 am

chris246810 wrote:I've messaged wally brew but he said he's away til september, might just try a brew without any water treatment, just run through my carbon filter and see how it turns out.
I would brew with your water as is. It will give you a benchmark as to what effect any water treatment has. The next step would be to reduce the alkalinity of your water, a Salifert kit is a cheap starting point and CRS a simple solution to reducing it. These simple steps will give you a step by step approach without taking on too much sophistication too soon and will help you to understand what affects you are achieving.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

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Drinking: Southwold Again,

Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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Eric
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Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by Eric » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:34 pm

chris246810 wrote:been trying to get my head around the whole water treatment thing, read through john palmers book and watched some videos on the subject but just cant seem to get my head around the subject of water treatment.

could somebody kindly have a look at my local water report and tell me which styles of beer i would likely have best success without having to treat my water so i can get some beer going and try and figure out what im doing before moving onto styles which will require treatment.

https://www.south-staffs-water.co.uk/me ... ire-sp.pdf

website says CaCO3 is 217.3
Just looking at what you found, there are measurements for sodium, sulphate and chloride from 10 samples. As already said, it varies little, typically of the order of +/- 3%, so is insignificant. I feel that 217.3 CaCO3 is a measure of total hardness and if so suggests your water has maybe about 85mg/l calcium plus a small amount of magnesium. Being brave or foolish enough to accept those values as valid it is possible to calculate an amount for alkalinity as circa 160mg/l as CaCO3.

Now alkalinity at that level will have an adverse influence on almost any beer you might choose to brew. That said, I would agree with Orlando not to get too involved with water treatment at this stage, you'll probably gain more by concentrating all efforts on other essentials of the process and equipment. The most suitable brew without treating alkalinity would be a stout maybe with a couple of teaspoons (for a 23 litre brew) of calcium chloride flake added to your liquor, or a Black IPA (if you like them) with a half teaspoon of gypsum in the grains and a half of calcium chloride flake in the liquor if you want.

Get a Salifert kit which will measure alkalinity allowing you treat it correctly and allow you to be aware of any variation in your water, as would a cheap TDS meter.

Just recognising the importance of water treatment is a big step.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

chris246810

Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by chris246810 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:13 pm

Thanks guys, ill go for a stout first then, not heard of black IPA before.
Got a few things to add to my shopping list and will keep reading up on the subject till I get it.

chris246810

Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by chris246810 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:40 pm

I got hold of salifert alkalinity and calcium test kits and a cheap tds meter.

Alkalinity reading converts to 136.5ppm caco3
Calcium reading is 75ppm

Is there any way to estimate the magnesium levels based on the info I already have?

I tested my water with the tds meter too, got a reading of 256 at 22c.
I have no idea of what this reading means or how I can use it to help me?

I got hold of a bottle of crs and I think i understand how to use it to reduce the alkalinity, now just need to get hold of the various salts for increasing the calcium levels

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Re: confused, what should i brew?

Post by Eric » Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:05 am

chris246810 wrote:I got hold of salifert alkalinity and calcium test kits and a cheap tds meter.

Alkalinity reading converts to 136.5ppm caco3
Calcium reading is 75ppm

Is there any way to estimate the magnesium levels based on the info I already have?

I tested my water with the tds meter too, got a reading of 256 at 22c.
I have no idea of what this reading means or how I can use it to help me?

I got hold of a bottle of crs and I think i understand how to use it to reduce the alkalinity, now just need to get hold of the various salts for increasing the calcium levels
So it would seem you find your water to be a little less ionised than the average of the water company's figures.
It isn't possible to estimate the magnesium content with any certainty. It would help if the geology of the capture area was known, but it is probably quite low, maybe a figure of 5mg/l would be likely excessive but wouldn't lead you astray if you were to assume that.
The TDS meter reading will not be accurate, but it will quickly tell you if your water has changed and in which direction. It measures electrical conductivity which it converts to a value in parts per million as if the only mineral in the water is common salt. You will hopefully find there is a fixed mathematical relationship between the TDS readings and your untreated alkalinity as measured by your Salifert kit.
Test the alkalinity of you water with the Salifert kit after treatment with CRS. Take it down to around 20mg/l as CaCO3 for pale beers.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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