Splitting the treatments

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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Aleman
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Re: Splitting the treatments

Post by Aleman » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:40 am

One thing to add is that if you are BIAB then you need to ensure your starting alkalinity is actually lower than normally suggested for 3V. For 3V I aim for 20-25mg/L using a 'pale' grist, when I use the Braumeister it 's more like 12-15, so a 40-50% reduction above what is normally recommended.

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Re: Splitting the treatments

Post by donchiquon » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:47 am

Aleman wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:40 am
For 3V I iam for 20-25mg/L using a 'pale' grist, when I use the Braumeister it 's more like 12-15, so a 40-50% reduction above what is normally recommended.
For my 3V I've been reducing to 20mg/l using Graham's calc (see pic) and ended up with 5.7pH. Would the easiest way to get a lower mash pH be to knock it down lower using CRS? Maybe to 5mg/l? (or is that going to end in tears?)
Screenshot 2018-02-27 11.21.35.png
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Re: Splitting the treatments

Post by orlando » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:10 pm

You can do either. At the moment your final liquour calcium level is 130, push that over 150 and see what happens. Also take into account the oft debated point about mash pH readings being different at mash heat and room heat. Knock off .25 or .35 (depending on who you believe) from your room temp measurement and your already in the sports related stadium.
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Re: Splitting the treatments

Post by Eric » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:33 pm

donchiquon wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:47 am
Aleman wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:40 am
For 3V I iam for 20-25mg/L using a 'pale' grist, when I use the Braumeister it 's more like 12-15, so a 40-50% reduction above what is normally recommended.
For my 3V I've been reducing to 20mg/l using Graham's calc (see pic) and ended up with 5.7pH. Would the easiest way to get a lower mash pH be to knock it down lower using CRS? Maybe to 5mg/l? (or is that going to end in tears?)
Have you measured the alkalinity after treatment with CRS? Just wondering if your CRS is up to strength.
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Re: Splitting the treatments

Post by donchiquon » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:47 pm

orlando wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:10 pm
You can do either. At the moment your final liquour calcium level is 130, push that over 150 and see what happens.
Thanks - I've done that on the calc, whilst keeping the same Sulphate-Chloride ratio for Sweet pale ales that I wanted. I used the automatic setting on the calc. So this will up the Calcium by about 10%, I'll make other adjustments after the next brew.
Screenshot 2018-02-27 14.39.19.png
orlando wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:10 pm
Also take into account the oft debated point about mash pH readings being different at mash heat and room heat. Knock off .25 or .35 (depending on who you believe) from your room temp measurement and your already in the sports related stadium.
I've read that thread and needed to sit down with a beer afterwards. Waaaaay beyond my pay grade :wacko:
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Re: Splitting the treatments

Post by Aleman » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:51 pm

orlando wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:10 pm
Also take into account the oft debated point about mash pH readings being different at mash heat and room heat. Knock off .25 or .35 (depending on who you believe) from your room temp measurement and your already in the sports related stadium.
<Rant Mode>
Don't do this :roll: those that quote that you 'adjust back' to the pH value at mash temp have little idea how a pH meter works and should be used. THE ONLY TIME IT IS VALID TO QUOTE THE MASH pH AT MASH Temp is in an industrial commercial brewery factory with in line pH probes, and there it is the actual value at the mash pH that they want because that is what they are measuring. It then is irrelevant to us as home brewers as we are not using pH probes that are resiliant enough to withstand those conditions. When these values are subsequently reported in the literature, they also quote the temperature, not so that someone with a little bit of knowledge can then say "Oh take 0.3 off that for Temp Adjustment, and that's the pH I need to aim for at room temperature", but so anyone else can repeat the 'experiment' with the appropriate conditions.

It is standard practice to quote the temperature at which the pH measurement is taken, if no temperature is quoted then it is common convention to assume that the conditions were RTP (Room Temperature and Pressure). Hence take the sample cool it to 20-25C and take the reading, quote the reading, with or without temperature, and everyone knows what you are talking about!
</Rant Mode>

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donchiquon
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Re: Splitting the treatments

Post by donchiquon » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:54 pm

Eric wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:33 pm
Have you measured the alkalinity after treatment with CRS? Just wondering if your CRS is up to strength.
That I had not thought of...I will add it my list of fault-finding experiments! Thanks Eric!
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Re: Splitting the treatments

Post by orlando » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:24 pm

Aleman wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:51 pm
THE ONLY TIME IT IS VALID TO QUOTE THE MASH pH AT MASH Temp is in an industrial commercial brewery factory with in line pH probes, and there it is the actual value at the mash pH that they want because that is what they are measuring......... Hence take the sample cool it to 20-25C and take the reading, quote the reading, with or without temperature, and everyone knows what you are talking about!
So if the CBF then cooled the same sample to 20-25c it would read the same as the in line measurement, or not? This is the crux of the confusion, "the people of little knowledge" engender when they insist the two are different.
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