Priming Extract Weissbier

[macleanb]

Hi Guys

Was trying to figure out how much DME to use to prime my extract Weissbier. I came across this:

http://www.geocities.com/lesjudith/Alco ... lator.html

Now this tells me I should be adding 16 ounces of DME to my 25l batch Does this seem right?

This is a bit of a retrospective question, as I chickened out a bit and used 12 ounces (still a huge amount to what I have used previously)

Beer was OG1051, FG1011, fermented @ ~20c.

Should I wear a flack jacket next time I go near?

[MightyMouth]

For 25 lt you should add a max of about 80grams or maybe 3 ounces.

[macleanb]

Isnt that at the other extreme - kinda cask bitter level - as this is DME its around half the "potency" of sugar by weight. So even for a medium fizz/condition we'd be talking 6 ounces?

[steve_flack]

Weizen are usually much more carbonated than bottled bitters so more priming is required to be authentic. I'm not sure I'd go to 4 volumes CO2 as suggested though unless I was sure the bottles could take it. If you've seen how thick some Belgian bottles you'd see what I mean - Orval for example.

The amount you've primed should give you 3 volumes CO2.

[macleanb]

I think that temp is fermentation temp - not serving temp, so as to calc the residual CO2 dissolved in the beer. By entering 5c, you have made the calculator over estimate the residual CO2 left in the beer.

Also When I have used 3oz in the past that has beed dextrose, not DME. So from what I have seen this is 50%-60% as much bubble to the ounce (new SI unit?) as sugars.

But that said, , yes it does sound rather a lot, and yes this is going to be fizzy. Most of the beer is in heavy duty (ish ) flip tops, so I may just give them a couple of releases before things get too lively.

[steve_flack]

I think that temp is fermentation temp - not serving temp, so as to calc the residual CO2 dissolved in the beer. By entering 5c, you have made the calculator over estimate the residual CO2 left in the beer.

Can't be, it's the serving temperature that determins how much co2 will dissolve into solution. If you serve it any warmer you will loose any excess gas when you open the bottle. Or end up wearing it

In these calculators the temperature is taken as the fermentation temperature. This is because if you bottle the residual CO2 from the primary in the beer before priming is what it's got in it then. The calculators are working out how much CO2 is already in the beer before it's primed.

If you cool it after bottling, the residual CO2 is not going to increase. The amount of CO2 that can dissolve in the beer will however increase as it gets colder. If you overprime and the bottle is warm...I hops you have a mop.

[johnh]

Should I wear a flack jacket next time I go near?

I always use PET bottles for this kind of beer for fear of exploding bottles but it'll probably be fine. A high level of carbonation accentuates the aroma of the beer. I underprimed my last weizen and at lower carbonation it just isn't right.

If it is based on fermentation temperature alone, as far as I can see it's flawed.

Assuming the use of a secondary at atmospheric pressure there will be minimal residual co2.

Sorry DaaB but I don't believe either of these statements is actually correct. You can take serving temperature into account when you calculate the priming sugar weight but the difference is so small that it's not significant (~3% IIRC). Also at normal atmospheric pressure the dissolved CO2 in the wort will approach 1 volume which is why you don't need to add much sugar for a bitter/pale ale. At lower bottling temps the dissolved CO2 is even higher.

[steve_flack]

Looking at it practically, if you leave an open bottle of coke in the fridge long enough it goes flat or it does in my fridge so residual carbonation is negligable if you use a secondary.

What's the carbonation of coke? It's probably a lot more than 1 vols when it's fresh. Of course it's going to go flat until it reaches the maximum amount of CO2 it can hold at atmospheric pressure which is about 1 volume.

You're assuming lack of visible fizz equals lack of dissolved CO2. It's not the same thing. Real ale is not fizzy and yet it still contains around 1 volume of dissolved CO2.

The only time you will slowly loose CO2 from the solution in the secondary is if the gas above the liquid is no longer CO2.

[johnh]

if you leave an open bottle of coke in the fridge long enough it goes flat or it does in my fridge

Ah, you also let your go coke flat? My grandad used to let his bananas go brown before eating them but that's another story.

the whole point i'm trying to make is that 169g is excessive even without any residual fermentation

Seriously, do you put your goggles and protective helmet on when you open a bottle of coke? No. Code is carbonated to about 3 volumes so it's about the same as a hefe. The CO2 slowly comes out of solution unless forced to precipitate (i.e. by banging it on the top of another bottle which is such a funny trick. ). The whole idea is to be refreshing and effervencent.

[Barley Water]

Well, of course it's interesting to read the discussion concerning carbonation at different temperates however I take the unscientific, emperical route. When I carbonate weizen, I add 1 1/3 cups of wheat DME to a 5 Gallon (US gallon) batch (kind of a poor man's krausen). I then let it sit around at room temperature for a couple of weeks then cool it back down for a week before serving. It will be pretty gassy at that level but that is what the style calls for. I don't bottle a lot but I usually put up a few bottles for competitions and I have yet to blow any up (although to tell you the truth, I handle them pretty gently once they are fully carbonated). I have also bottle conditioned Saisons with even greater carbonation than that and have yet to see any blown up (of course I wear safety glasses when I handle those bottles). For my own consumption, I bottle these highly carbonated beers in either Belgian bottles or Champaign bottles just to be safe. I don't know why the competions over here specify the standard 12oz brown bottles but they seem to hold up.

[johnh]

Having said that I wouldn't bottle a whole batch of perfectly good beer in PET

The jury's still out for me on that one.

and neither has the originator of this thread they've used glass as would I hence the suggestion of caution.

Absolutely 100% in agreement. 3 volumes CO2 corresponds to over 30psi by my reckoning. If there is any doubt at all as to whether the bottle can stand that kind of pressure then use extreme caution. That's exactly why I use PET bottles.

[MightyMouth]

Most of the beer is in heavy duty (ish ) flip tops, so I may just give them a couple of releases before things get too lively.

Correct me if I am wrong (and I probably am) but on swing tops won't the gaskets fail before the bottle breaks?

[MightyMouth]

Why? Rubber gaskets are very good and these ones are well secured due to the shape of the stopper.

I don't know why, its just something that I think I remember hearing and it seemed reasonable. Not that the rubber actually split or anything but that the gas just exerted enough pressure to escape past the gasket.

[macleanb]

So I may be saved by gasket farts

Wow - quite a thread - wish I chosen something less Controversial like geo-political options for the Levant or something...

[Iank]

Ben, remember that with a weizen, you want the sediment in the beer, so make sure you give the bottle a good shake before you open it to get all the yeast into suspension