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BJG70
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Hello everyone

Post by BJG70 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:26 pm

I’m relatively new to brewing. I dappled with wine making and all grain brewing quite a few years ago. I did it all on the cheap, I managed to make a few good batches of beer and also produced a reasonable larger in the cooler months. My wines were always terrible.
Recently I thought I would try again. I brought 2 conical plastic fermenters and have made 2 wine kits in them so far. I have bottled the first kit, and I must say I am very pleased with it. The second is clearing.
I am going to keep going with the kits through the winter and maybe have a go at all grain brewing next year. So I will have lots of questions. Thanks Brian

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Jim
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Jim » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:40 pm

Welcome to JBK! :)

I also tried wine kits many years ago, and I've also made a few recently. I have to say that as long as you're prepared to pay for a good quality kit, they are far, far better than the old cheap Boots stuff.

e.g. I made this Beaverdale Chardonnay and it was as at least as good as any £5 supermarket plonk -https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/wine/wine ... nay-1.html
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Philip K. Dick

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orlando
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by orlando » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 pm

With All Grain brewing you have a very reasonable chance of producing Beer as good and sometimes better than you can buy. Don't think the same is true with Wine, unless you're happy drinking poor Wine. :wall
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Touched By Your Presents Beer, I Got The Power - Sierra Nevada American Pale
Conditioning: Party Like A Russian (RIS)
Drinking: Drowning in Dusseldorf (Alt Bier), India (real IPA), Black Night
Up Next: From Russia With Love (RIS)
Planning: Winter drinking beer.

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Jim
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Jim » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:19 pm

orlando wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 pm
With All Grain brewing you have a very reasonable chance of producing Beer as good and sometimes better than you can buy. Don't think the same is true with Wine, unless you're happy drinking poor Wine. :wall
+1
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Philip K. Dick

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BJG70
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by BJG70 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:17 pm

Thanks Jim and Orlando for your advise. I was planning to grow grapes on my allotment, but maybe I should sow barely instead.

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Re: Hello everyone

Post by scotsloon » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:01 pm

BJG70 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:17 pm
Thanks Jim and Orlando for your advise. I was planning to grow grapes on my allotment, but maybe I should sow barely instead.
Or hops.

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Northern Brewer
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Northern Brewer » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:07 pm

Hops are probably your best bang for the buck in a small space in the UK - aside from financially, it opens up options like green hop beer which is delicious but only really works if you can get the hops into wort within a few hours of picking.

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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Meatymc » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:16 pm

Northern Brewer wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:07 pm
Hops are probably your best bang for the buck in a small space in the UK - aside from financially, it opens up options like green hop beer which is delicious but only really works if you can get the hops into wort within a few hours of picking.
+1 on that - rhizomes are cheap to buy, easy to grow and easy to propagate although they take 2 or 3 years to get to giving a good yield.

If you also start scavenging yeast from bottle conditioned beer and/or by taking early samples from an active fermentation and, with your own hops, you've cut a big chunk out of the cost of a brew!

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orlando
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by orlando » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:00 am

BJG70 wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:17 pm
I was planning to grow grapes on my allotment, but maybe I should sow barely instead.

Keep your clothes on this time of the year. :lol:
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Touched By Your Presents Beer, I Got The Power - Sierra Nevada American Pale
Conditioning: Party Like A Russian (RIS)
Drinking: Drowning in Dusseldorf (Alt Bier), India (real IPA), Black Night
Up Next: From Russia With Love (RIS)
Planning: Winter drinking beer.

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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Dave S » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:22 am

orlando wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 pm
With All Grain brewing you have a very reasonable chance of producing Beer as good and sometimes better than you can buy. Don't think the same is true with Wine, unless you're happy drinking poor Wine. :wall
I don't know, my brother-in-law makes wine and we bought him a 30 bottle Kenridge Classic Shiraz a couple of years ago for his birthday. I can say that the result was superb and difficult to distinguish from a 5 or £6 bottle from the Supermarket.
Best wishes

Dave

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Jim
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Jim » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:52 am

Dave S wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:22 am
orlando wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 pm
With All Grain brewing you have a very reasonable chance of producing Beer as good and sometimes better than you can buy. Don't think the same is true with Wine, unless you're happy drinking poor Wine. :wall
I don't know, my brother-in-law makes wine and we bought him a 30 bottle Kenridge Classic Shiraz a couple of years ago for his birthday. I can say that the result was superb and difficult to distinguish from a 5 or £6 bottle from the Supermarket.
I think though that in wine terms, a £5 or £6 pound supermarket bottle is about the equivalent of John Smith's Smooth. :lol:
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Philip K. Dick

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Dave S
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by Dave S » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:58 am

Jim wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:52 am
Dave S wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:22 am
orlando wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 pm
With All Grain brewing you have a very reasonable chance of producing Beer as good and sometimes better than you can buy. Don't think the same is true with Wine, unless you're happy drinking poor Wine. :wall
I don't know, my brother-in-law makes wine and we bought him a 30 bottle Kenridge Classic Shiraz a couple of years ago for his birthday. I can say that the result was superb and difficult to distinguish from a 5 or £6 bottle from the Supermarket.
I think though that in wine terms, a £5 or £6 pound supermarket bottle is about the equivalent of John Smith's Smooth. :lol:
It's about all my budget usually stretches to, Jim :lol: I've also had some very mediocre wines costing a lot more.
Best wishes

Dave

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Re: Hello everyone

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:06 pm

Dave S wrote:
Jim wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:52 am
Dave S wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:22 am
I don't know, my brother-in-law makes wine and we bought him a 30 bottle Kenridge Classic Shiraz a couple of years ago for his birthday. I can say that the result was superb and difficult to distinguish from a 5 or £6 bottle from the Supermarket.
I think though that in wine terms, a £5 or £6 pound supermarket bottle is about the equivalent of John Smith's Smooth. :lol:
It's about all my budget usually stretches to, Jim :lol: I've also had some very mediocre wines costing a lot more.
But the epic wines never show up at that £5/6 price.

If you get help from a friend who knows his wine shop around for something in the 15-25 range if you are feeling indulgent, and properly manage the wine: decent, chambree whatever.

Not everything at that price is worth it, and you can get stuff cheaper that gets close.

But it’s worth knowing how good the good stuff really gets, before setting the quality high bar at the supermarket specials.

Especially if you are making wine at home : target the top end and see how close you get. It’s very hard for you to get the grape quality that the top vineyards use, but there are wines that get a lot of their flavour from the yeast.

And yeast harvesting and management? Thats a key area where you can apply a big impact in your home wines

BJG70
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by BJG70 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:19 am

This is the area I was wondering about. Is it a good idea to harvest the yeast from a wine kit?
It was mentioned earlier that you can get better results brewing beer than wine. But there seem to be much more effort and understanding that goes into the fermentation of a beer, oxygenating the wort, yeast stains, temperature and so on. Obviously the quality of the grapes/concentrate is a limiting factor but is it worth harvesting yeast to reduce harshness and off flavours or should I continue using dry yeast. Please remember I’m new to this!

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orlando
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Re: Hello everyone

Post by orlando » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:54 am

You're right about effort and understanding, but only if you are determined to make commercial standard Beer. It wouldn't surprise me you would still require similar to make 1/2 decent Wine. But I wouldn't be happy with that.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Touched By Your Presents Beer, I Got The Power - Sierra Nevada American Pale
Conditioning: Party Like A Russian (RIS)
Drinking: Drowning in Dusseldorf (Alt Bier), India (real IPA), Black Night
Up Next: From Russia With Love (RIS)
Planning: Winter drinking beer.

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