Connecting to the web to discuss water chemistry and mash pH

[OldN1ck]

Hi folks,
Just signed up to the forum; don't do social media, forums, etc. in general, so some trepidation... particularly as my Chosen Subject is water chemistry and mash pH (& I've noticed how some discussions on this topic can go).

After 30 years of kit and now 4 years of all grain brewing I've realised that I'm on a trajectory that may not be unique:
> Get confused by some mash pH readings experienced.
> Try using published mash pH prediction tools as an aid to understanding.
> Get confused by results of published mash prediction tools.
> Head off on a detour to understand how published mash prediction tools work.
> Find out that they don't work for me.
> Learn enough in the process to start calculating mash pH estimates for myself.

Googling last week, to see if others are involved in similar investigations, I spotted some interesting activity in this forum's Brewing Liquor section... so thought it might be nice to come along and compare notes

[MashBag]

Worry not. There are many ways to do this.

Let's start with a postcode from a shop near you and tell us your water supplier.

This will help us get your water report and then comment.

[OldN1ck]

Hey MashBag,
Many thanks for the offer but I'm all set w.r.t. water report info (such as it is) from Severn Trent... no alkalinity data and they don't 'fess up to all the mineral hardness that's in there. Plus their water varies from month to month, so I check KH & GH for every brew with an API aquarium kit, and have done a spot-check of my readings c.f. a Murphy&Sons analysis.
It was Malt Acidity = fn(Colour AND Malt Type) that caught me out at the start of the year, then recalled Malt Miller YouTube video(s) about brewing water, discussing tools for estimating mash pH, so thought those must have the low-down on malt acidity. That was when the fun really started.

[nallum]

Which mash pH prediction tools? Just get your brewing water analysed by Murphy & Son then use Graham Wheeler’s water treatment calculator on this site. I’ve never used a pH prediction tool, but my measured mash pHs are always where they should be. Unless you’re really into the subject of water chemistry.

[OldN1ck]

"Which mash pH prediction tools?"

All of them, I think

"Unless you’re really into the subject of water chemistry."

This may well be the case

[Jim]

Welcome Nick.

Good luck with your quest to understand water treatment!

[IPA]

Contact Wallybrew on this forum and ask him if he still does water analysis. If he does send him a sample. Then as Nallam says follow Graham's calculator on this site.

[nallum]

"Which mash pH prediction tools?"

All of them, I think

"Unless you’re really into the subject of water chemistry."

This may well be the case

Are you referring to water treatment calculators as ‘pH prediction tools’? In my mind, this implies a specific pH value is calculated. I’ve not used a water treatment calculator that dares to attempt anything so bold. A sales pitch based on con artistry? Metaphysics at least.

The basic idea (all that interests me) of water treatment calculators is, of course, to promote a mash pH within the acceptable range (5.2-5.6 +/- some opinion and contrarianism) based on brewing water and beer style/grist.

Perhaps I’m lucky, but my mash pH is always within the acceptable range. Usually between 5.2 and 5.4, according to my pH meter. That’s based on using Graham Wheeler’s water treatment calculator, water profile, scales, etc. I prefer a slightly higher pH for dark beers, but otherwise couldn’t distinguish any differences in the final paler beers between, say, a mash pH of 5.2 vs 5.4. Hence my ‘interest’ in brewing water chemistry.

If things are going noticeably wrong then the water profile data isn’t correct. The ‘crap in, crap out’ principle. Having a water source that changes so much over a short time is unlucky too. A water calculator can’t solve that problem. I think there are some ad hoc tests you can do when prepping your brewing water, but I don’t use them. Better advice will be given by those who do.

[PeeBee]

[... Better advice will be given by those who do.

Got it, I'll see what I can do ...

...

Oh, oh. Can't help me-self can I ... I'm dead.

But, if I run away quickly, he may not catch me? Bye ...

[OldN1ck]

Hey folks, many thanks for welcoming responses w.r.t. sharing my water analysis data - to see what you all think of it.
I reckon that would be better down in the Brewing Liquor section, so I'll head down there and post some info.

[MashBag]

Here we go..

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=84477&p=872122#p872122