What is the difference between pale ale malt and lager malt?

[Invalid Stout]

Technically, I mean. It's obvious they give quite different flavours but why is that? Different types of barley? Presumably pale ale malt is more heavily kilned than lager malt but it can't be by much. Is that enough to destroy things like the DMS precursors you find in lager malt?

[mysterio]

Yes the primary difference is the kilning. Pale ale malt is kilned slightly longer to around 5 EBC while lager/pilsner malts are around 2.5 - 3 EBC. Small differences in the kilning duration/temperature can lead to quite pronunced flavour differences when the base malt makes up the bulk of the grist. Try an all-Vienna malt beer (10 EBC) and it's completely different. Lager malts, because of their very gentle kilning also have a higher moisture content which means they can spoil quicker than MO pale malt. I think Lager malts are kilned at around 80C while pale malts are closer to 100C.

Varieties, my knowledge is a little patchy here, I believe UK lager malt is also Maris Otter (a winter barley), or it may be Optic i'm not sure. Continental pils malt is a spring barley (possibly Alexis or Hanka?).

The DMS precurser is S-methylmethionine (SMM) which is heat labile, so is still present in the Lager malt (due to the light kilning) but you will never have a problem with MO pale malt.

[Jim]

Someone more knowledgable will fill in the details, but lager malt is also higher in nitrogen and is less well 'modified' than pale malt.

These characteristics mean that to avoid hazes, you need to give lager malt a 'protein rest' at a lower temperature when you are mashing.

The differences are explained here.

[Invalid Stout]

So why don't we get them (the S-methylmethwhatchamacallit) in low colour Maris Otter either? That's what made me wonder.

[lancsSteve]

So why don't we get them in low colour Maris Otter either? That's what made me wonder.

Has been exactly my query there - I have a sack of low colour marris otter. Can I substitute this for pilsener malt in recipes? And what's the difference between pilsener malt and lager malt - aart from the price and producer? (Lager is presumably low kilned british malt and pilsener imported from Europe... so dif flavours/nitrogen/modification???)

[mysterio]

Good point, Low Colour MO and & Lager malt are around the same EBC apparently. But the LCMO smells much maltier out of the sack to me. And you can't really smell the SMM/DMS from the boil as much as the lager malt. There's bound to be a difference as it's (unusually for malt) a winter barley.

LCMO, lager malt and pilsner malt all taste different to me. The differences between the last two are subtle but they're still there.

[Stonechat]

Not sure what the cost of low colour Maris Otter is, as I have never used it, but the price difference between Normal Maris Otter and Lager Malt for a 25kg sack is £2.77.

I guess this is why if the predominate characteristic of a beer is hoppiness rather than maltiness, then some commercial brewers will use Lager Malt for the £2.77 saving per sack and also the higher extraction rate that they will get over Maris Otter.

For a pronounced malty flavour nothing beats Maris Otter IMHO.

[6470zzy]

For a pronounced malty flavour nothing beats Maris Otter IMHO.

I rather like Golden Promise better .......with MO a very close second

cheers

[Eadweard]

Lager malt is heated less in the maltings. Lager malt is paler, has higher nitrogen and higher moisture content than pale ale malt. Traditionally your British ale malts were higher quality than foreign lager malts, which is why we could get away with simple infusion mashing with no need for stepped temperature rises to get reduce beta glucans and protein.

Here's a copy and paste of some blurb on lager malt:
Kilning “air-on” temperatures are in the range 50-70°C and curing around 85°C, which is adequate to effect removal of most of the
green, grassy aromas produced from oxidised lipids, but insufficient to break down the DMS precursor (SMM). This is acceptable in lager
malts and often a requirement, however, a stand of approximately 30 minutes is required during wort boiling to ensure DMS control. Malt
moisture levels are typically 4-6%, colours 3 EBC units, and TSN values between 0.5-0.7% giving a lightly coloured malt with a malty,
biscuit-like flavour.

(Pale ale malt is kilned at around 100°C)

I was chatting to the guy from Warminster maltings at the Home Brew Shop open day and he said low colour pale ale malt is basically lager malt made from MO barley. I guess this means there shouldn't be a problem making lagers from it!

[testtube]

Cains brewery use Marris Otter for their Lager, Booths sell it, quite nice too.

[raiderman]

I don't know if modern lager malts still have the problem with nitrogen. I have been adding up to 1.5kg lager malt in with MO to produce paler blonde ales without any haze issues. Having said that I include a protein rest when I brew lager, but thats because I think it improves the flavour, not because of clarity issues!

I thought low colour MO was introduced in response to the trend for blonde ales - giving a paler colour but better flavour than lager malt. I'm interested in trying it in both a blonde and a lager though - anyone know where can I get it?

[lancsSteve]

I *think* the malt miller carries it, worth asking.. - http://www.themaltmiller.co.uk, leyland homebrew do as standard: http://www.leylandhomebrew.com/item1910.htm

[raiderman]

cheers steve, it has to be worth trying some in both lagers and bitters

[critch]

warminsters lager malt is well modified, no need for the rest or stepped mash, been using it in a few of my commercial ales with no ill effects