Marris Otter alternative

[Sadfield]

Would it be fair to guess that using MO malts has more to do with tradition and perhaps even snob value than flavour?

Not really, or at least not only; it is still one of the best varieties you can easily get for home brewing. It does have its own flavour, whether you can tell in certain recipes may be another matter (I generally can't but then typically have significant other/darker grains in my beers too). But it is also particularly good for having low nitrogen and protein levels, and protein in the finished beer is something we generally work at reducing; it is related to haze later on.

There are more modern types of course, but in general their development has tended towards being cheaper (through higher yield and disease resistance), they're not intrinsically better. Apparently the big breweries prefer cheapness, even if they have to work a bit harder with it.

There are some that I won't choose, because they are much higher in nitrogen and not very much cheaper (in the homebrew market) - so it seems a false economy. Many are still quite acceptable though, it just depends on what your priorities are. I will happily use other varieties like flagon, but if trying to make a particularly good quality beer (especially if pale) I will usually choose MO purely because I think it makes a small difference and is easily available to us.

Is it? Or does it just command a higher price due to decreasing acreage and historic reputation? As you say, the price of malt has little to do with brewing and more to do with farmers yield, how easy it is to grow. If brewers can achieve the same results, and very similar, if not fuller flavour profile with, say Propino, at half the price, why wouldn't they. Newer and cheaper doesn't intrinsically mean worse.

It's interesting that MO has a reputation for being nutty, yet isn't as nutty as other UK varieties. Most certainly due to US brewers comparing it to their domestic varieties when trying to brew UK styles.



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[Kev888]

Is it? Or does it just command a higher price due to decreasing acreage and historic reputation?

Yes, MO 'is' better than most. It does also cost more, due to intrinsic qualities like lower yield and disease resistance and also practical considerations like less planting. But if you believe that your retailer is charging additionally for historic reputation, I would question if they should still be your retailer. A well priced (but good) brand like Crisps from a good retailer really should not cost all that much more at a home-brew scale.

Flavour is a matter of perception and preference, and can be argued about forever (even before it is oversimplified). Thankfully, every homebrewer can easily make their own mind up about that, one way or the other, so no great problem there. The nitrogen and protein can be measured objectively, and any maltster worth their salt can (and do) publish at least the former, from which the latter can be inferred. You'll find there is a small difference between MO and good alternatives, and really quite a big one with poor alternatives. Until relatively recently, some varieties available to homebrewers would not have been considered brewing grade, just food grade. The grain hasn't changed; the hoops that (bigger) breweries jump through to use it has.

[Sadfield]

Yes it's better than most, but not the best. And it's price is definitely being kept high through intention, although through being limited as to how much and where it's grown.

Given Maris Otter’s past, you can’t blame Appel for keeping a close eye on its future. He says that you’ll never find it grown outside of the UK, not because it couldn’t be, but because he wants to retain full control. “The problem is that there would be some maverick producing it and undercutting the market,” he says. “If you trash malt price sufficiently, you’ll kill it stone dead. Farmers won’t grow it.”

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[Kev888]

Yes, I didn't say it was 'the' best (that depends on your priorities, in any case); rather, it is still 'one' of the best quality varieties available to us. The main point being that it is not all about outdated reputation (as some may like to think); there is actual substance behind it, that is still very relevant to homebrewers today even though it is an older variety.

Its never going to be sustainable as a huge crop these days though (the yield is too low to interest the bigger brewers for their mainstream products), so it can only really exist as a more premium product, which at least it (arguably) is. The controls you mention are unfortunate, but I'd be surprised if they increased prices massively over what would be needed to make MO sustainable in any case.

I agree there are other good types too though, and that they don't intrinsically have to be old varieties. Currently, few are noticeably cheaper, and they're also less commonly available at homebrew retailers. I've so far not found any that I personally prefer either, so for the moment MO is still my own go-to for best quality. But if controls (or whatever) started to cause price hikes, then I certainly don't see MO as having a monopoly even within the better quality bracket.

[Hanglow]

One of the reasons it kept going because it mashed so well in traditional british brew systems . But with the advent of modern systems that doesn't matter, so other cheaper, higher yielding and disease resistant ones have taken over. I'm sure there is some marketing appeal as well of course, tradition is a good selling point for many ales

I think it's good that it is still around, more choice is good surely? It's not good for some beer styles but the same can be said for the best pils malt etc

[IPA]

I usually use Crisp malts but last time I bought two sacks of Fawcett. The efficiency has dropped incredibly. Next time it's back to Crisp. For the record I crush it myself and have not altered the gap. The best extract I have ever had was using Dingemann's

[HTH1975]

I’ve used Maris Otter, Propino and Halcyon. My preference in order was Halcyon, MO then Propino.

You don’t see Halcyon round very much, but I think it’s a great base malt. Not as sweet as the other two and bags of flavour. It does tend to be a tiny bit darker and not quite the same yield, but nothing to worry about on a homebrew scale.