bulk DME?

[opentoideas]

so in terms of DME to use as a substitute for sugar the 25Kg one is not likely to be of use? I have emailed the shop for further information and will post the reply.

the 15Kg - I hadn't noticed it was liquid, thats not such a good deal then

oh well back to the drawing board

I can't believe there isn't a cheaper bulk supply available - the only ones I have found are on a par with buying 500g bags

[opentoideas]

I still have to do my first brews with DME to see if I continue with it but given the comments on here I think this likely.

I gathered that I would be best boiling to disolve the spraymalt anyway so that shouldnt be a problem and for convenience I planned to split any sack into 1Kg bags and seal them when first opened.

if this is not practical then I guess a rethink is in order

just trying to save a bit of money but I realise its not always practical

[opentoideas]

DME dissolves best in cool water/wort as long as you pour it in slowly and mix well.

I will bow to experience on this as I havn't used it yet but although I am sure it may disolve easily in cool water I am surprised that it would disolve more readily in cool as oposed to hot water

[sparky Paul]

DME dissolves best in cool water/wort as long as you pour it in slowly and mix well.

I will bow to experience on this as I havn't used it yet but although I am sure it may disolve easily in cool water I am surprised that it would disolve more readily in cool as oposed to hot water

I know it sounds odd, but DaaB's right.

Hot water does dissolve it, but it clumps really badly in hot water and it can be hard work.

I've looked for cheap spraymalt, if you can find it in bulk it doesn't work out much cheaper. I was buying it at £2.25/500g less 5% discount from BrewGenie before the prices went up, but they're not the cheapest supplier anymore. I'm sure you can get Munton's for £2.75 somewhere, I'll have to check.

Alternatively, BG are still listing John Bull liquid malt extract for £5.45 for a 1.6Kg can, less 5% discount.

[opentoideas]

that's wierd! so I guess if you needed/wanted to boil it you would have to disolve it in cool water first then boil it, or would it precipitate out into clumps even then?

I don't really want to give up on the idea of bulk supply as at 1/2 the price its worthwhile. I will just have to take some sensible steps for storage

[opentoideas]

Once it's dissolved it's fine, you can boil it as normal.

Good grief DaaB - do you ever sleep?

thats good to know, there is hope yet.

I am waiting for a reply as to which Edme product that link is for(and if still available) I might get lucky

[sparky Paul]

Yes, Munton's is £2.75/500g at Brewmart, I haven't seen anywhere cheaper recently. To be honest, unless you're making a very good saving buying bulk, the handling and storage issues make it less attractive.

Save the kits you have for making starters, come join in the fun now

I just had a count up in the cupboard, I've just put two on and there's 8 more kits piled up! In any case, I haven't got all the equipment yet for AG.

[sparky Paul]

DaaB, do you think its worth doing a few no-mash extract brews before the AG?

I'm finding I have an irresistable urge to peruse the Recipes section.

[sparky Paul]

No, you wont gain anything. You'll learn so much from doing your first AG, mainly how little you really need to know about it all to do it and that the only tricky part is the logistics ie getting the HLT above he MT above the boiler then getting it into the fermenter.

I think you're probably right.

I reckon I have a pretty good idea how the bits will fit into the space I have available, and how it will all work together. As you know, I'm no stranger to this type of process on a larger scale, but it helps a lot to see and read about other people's kit on the forum. There are so many great ideas on here which can be adapted to suit your own arrangement.

I'll be able to look seriously at this a little later in the year, I've a bit of building work to finish first. I intend putting some pics on the forum showing how the kit goes together, hopefully it will be of some interest to others thinking about making the jump to AG.

FWIW i'd pick a nice simple recipe not because complex recipes are harder to make but because they will still give you a better idea of your system efficiency and what level of bitterness you actually get from a given addition of hops while still producing a nice beer no matter what happens. That way you have a bench mark for future brews.

I had already earmarked a few recipes using a very limited list of ingredients, I think that's definitely the way to go when starting out.

The only thing that bothers me at the moment is the cost of good quality hops...

[sparky Paul]

I look forward to those pics, don't leave it too long

I've just got too much on at the moment. However, I will get something set up this summer, even if its not the finished article.

[opentoideas]

well I have now tried my first brew with DME..........

I now understand the clumping issue and just how hygroscopic this stuff is! buk storage is certainly an issue.

so is there a secret to disolving it readily? I tried adding one bag to the water and water to the other bag and both times it clumped up badly (had to resort to giving it a good going over with a blender)

I am so glad I didn't just chuck it into the FB.

is there a trick to this?

I also thought the OG would be higher than with sugar - not sure but thought I read this somewhere - but it ended up just the same at 1.040 - was this a misconception?

[sparky Paul]

I also thought the OG would be higher than with sugar - not sure but thought I read this somewhere - but it ended up just the same at 1.040 - was this a misconception?

The OG may be a fraction higher, but your FG will be a lot higher - hence the loss of ABV.

As for the clumping, add slowly and stir as DaaB says. I add to lukewarm water. If you do get the dreaded lumps, then stir... stir... stir... eventually, the lumps will dissolve. Leave it for 10 minutes and come back to it if it won't have it.

[opentoideas]

The extract value for household sugar is 374 pts and the extract value for dme is also 374. The extract value for glucose is around 300.

ok so what does that mean

I feel yet another gap in my knowledge about to be filled

my understanding was that in terms of fermentable sugar sucrose and glucose were equal but that glucose was alledgedly more readily fermentable (monosaccaride) but sucrose was first converted from a pollysaccaride to monosaccaride by the yeast leaving all things equal.

DME, I have no idea of the contents but thought it was a mix of fermentable and unfermentable sugars giving a lower fermentable value Kg fo Kg.

so how does this relate to the extract value?

[opentoideas]

ok, could you clarify this for me then to check my understanding?

the formula I found for working out abv was (og-fg)x131 - is this correct?

on this basis sugar and DME still fit with my understanding (which is nice ) og remains the same and fg is higher for DME so abv is less with DME.

I always thought that glucose was a direct substitute with sugar without effect but this would suggest that the og will be less. I would expect the fg to be the same and not any less than with sugar so it would seem that the abv will be less with glucose as well as DME? or would the fg be lower?

[opentoideas]

Thanks Daab,

that makes sense, I didn't realise that glucose was not 100% fermentable