Question about English Crystal Malt and colour

[seymour]

Please educate me.

Despite wide ranging flavors, most English Ale recipes share many basic similarities, right? Whether historical or modern, commercial or homebrew, most recipes only call for some 2-row barley pale ale base malt (typically Maris Otter or the like) + Crystal Malt + maybe a bit of Torrified Wheat, Chocolate malt, Roasted malts, simple sugars. I know I'm over-simplifying but stay with me...

By punching these basic recipes into a calculator or brewing software we predict many outcomes including colour. But one of the biggest variables I keep struggling with is Crystal malt's depth of colour. Especially when there are only two or three ingredients, the amount of caramelization in the selected Crystal Malt has a massive impact on the final flavors, aromas, and color.

So how do YOU think about Crystal Malt? What do YOU use when a recipe calls for vague "Crystal Malt"? What is sold in your local homebrew stores? Do they differentiate "Light Crystal", "Medium Crystal", "Dark Crystal," etc?

It seems to me English Crystal Malts are most commonly 50-65° Lovibond, right? That tends to be what I use in my calculation, but I've come across a few recipes which are just pale malt and a small percentage of crystal malt, yet the final colour they describe is SO dark they could only mean very, very dark malt such as chocolate (≈400°L, which to me, shouldn't be referred to generically as "Crystal Malt".)

What am I missing? Do I need to widen my definition of "Crystal Malt"? Or are there just some nonsense recipe statistics out there?

Thanks, everyone!

[Dr. Dextrin]

In my experience crystal malt does vary a little in flavour from one supplier to another but not as much as you seem to suggest. If you buy with a quoted colour (normally the "regular" crystal is about 130 EBC) I find that recipes you design yourself are fairly repeatable in terms of flavour and getting the right colour isn't a problem at all.

In terms of following other people's recipes, I think there is a tendency not to qualify the word "crystal" with "pale" or "dark" (or to give the colour) in recipes when it probably should be. Possibly brewers are guilty of this when giving out recipe information as it makes it harder to copy whatever they use. But even in Graham Wheeler's books, I don't think this distinction is drawn, when perhaps it should be. When using crystal malt I always try to consider what colour I should be using and possibly use a mixture if it seems appropriate, but the balance is usually one of those things you need to tweak after tasting the beer.

No, I don't consider chocolate malt to be a crystal malt either. If the colour is wrong just using crystal malt (even dark crystal malt), then I'd say there's a problem with the recipe unless some other colouring agent is mentioned.

The crystal malt colours available in the UK seem fairly limited. There's pale (normally about 60 EBC), regular (about 130 EBC) and dark (about 300 EBC). The difference in taste between these is dramatic - not a gradual progression at all! I did once get some 100 EBC crystal which was nice, but it was expensive. Normally I blend if I want an intermediate colour, but the effect isn't quite what you'd want ideally.

I've found that the most variable factor when using crystal malt is what the yeast will make of it. Something like Nottingham tends to suck all the sweetness out, which also removes the toffee flavour and leaves it tasting more like biscuits. It may only decide to do this after bottling as well, which can lead to over-carbonation. OTOH, some yeasts produce a really strong toffee taste from crystal malt. I guess the malt contains a range of sugars and different yeasts eat different ones. This aspect is just a matter of experience, I think. Whether it also depends on the source of the crystal malt, I'm not sure.

[seymour]

Really great information, as always. Thank you again Dr. Dextin!

[timbo41]

Some online suppliers in uk will specify lovibond values, so helping in recipe/colour formulation. However in the Hbs' I frequent I normally only come across light, medium,dark crystal malt, roasted dark. To be honest I tend to guess at colour outcome, not worrying too much. Not that much of a purist

[seymour]

...To be honest I tend to guess at colour outcome, not worrying too much. Not that much of a purist

Yeah, me too. I don't mean to seem anal-retentive about it.

It's just, for instance, a Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild clone recipe calls for 85% pale malt and 15% crystal malt, and that's it, but then indicates colour of 27°SRM/54°EBC which is officially "very dark brown," nearly opaque like a stout. 15% "Light Crystal Malt" would basically produce a pale ale. 15% of "Regular Crystal Malt" would still only produce a clear copper colour. It would take 15% chocolate or roasted malt to produce something that dark. Not to mention how dramatically different those three examples would taste and smell... I'm just wondering how you guys approach that sort of dillema.

[Blackaddler]

Not only will it vary between countries but also between maltsters.

For instance, here's Warminster's offerings in 2008...

Low Colour Crystal .................. 105
Crystal ................................ 145
High Colour Crystal (Dark Crystal) 200
Colour 400 Crystal .................. 400

Warminster's are a bit more specific in the naming these days, refering to the EBC colour.

in 2010...
Crystal 100 .......................... 105
Crystal 140 .......................... 135
Crystal 200 .......................... 200
Crystal 400 .......................... 400

Simpsons refer to their Crystal as follows...

Crystal Light ......................... 80 – 100 [30 – 37 Lovibond]
Crystal ................................ 130 – 160 [50 – 60]
Crystal Dark ......................... 200 – 230 [75 – 86.8]
Crystal Extra Dark .................. 400 – 440 [150 - 165]

...but elsewhere, they're referred to differently. eg Bintani, Australian importer of Simpsons Malt

Pale Crystal ...........................90-110
Medium Crystal ......................140-160
Dark Crystal ..........................220-260
Heritage Crystal .....................140-160 [The first commercial release of crystal malt made from 100% Maris Otter barley.]

Confusing, innit?

Edit: Here's Fawcetts

Pale Crystal .......................... 60 - 80
Crystal ................................ 120 - 140
Dark Crystal ......................... 200 - 400

The Dark Crystal seems to have a quite large range!

[Dr. Dextrin]

Yes, there is quite a range of colours produced by maltsters, but only a few seem to be available though homebrew outlets. So there's a good chance you won't easily be able to use whatever the commercial brewer used if you're trying to clone one of their beers.

It's just, for instance, a Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild clone recipe calls for 85% pale malt and 15% crystal malt, and that's it, but then indicates colour of 27°SRM/54°EBC which is officially "very dark brown," nearly opaque like a stout. 15% "Light Crystal Malt" would basically produce a pale ale. 15% of "Regular Crystal Malt" would still only produce a clear copper colour. It would take 15% chocolate or roasted malt to produce something that dark. Not to mention how dramatically different those three examples would taste and smell... I'm just wondering how you guys approach that sort of dillema.

In that case, I'd strongly suspect the use of caramel to darken the beer because using all dark crystal malt is going to be too roasty for a mild, I'd say, never mind even darker roasts (there might be a bit used, but all regular 130 EBC crystal would be my guess). Caramel is a common addition to milds.

[seymour]

...In that case, I'd strongly suspect the use of caramel to darken the beer because using all dark crystal malt is going to be too roasty for a mild, I'd say, never mind even darker roasts (there might be a bit used, but all regular 130 EBC crystal would be my guess). Caramel is a common addition to milds.

Aha! The missing puzzle piece

[dean_wales]

I personally have found mixing the crystal malts to be quite effective. Including some of the dark crystal malt is always nice.

I like to use half to a third dark crystal and a half to two thirds regular or pale crystal.

Just builds up the flavour profile better than a single addition in my experience.