Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

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orlando
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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by orlando » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:28 am

f00b4r wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:02 pm
An interesting post Scott Janish on why dry hopping cooler and with shorter contact times may be beneficial in a few ways.
Thanks for posting that. I've read quite a few of his posts and have always learned more from the science than the usual opinion pieces that blight debate in home brewing. There is a factor I have found that is equally, even more important, than time and temperature and that is "aroma out the bag". The quality of the hop matters more. For any given hop there are some more aromatic than others. Poor aroma from the bag, poor aroma in the Beer. The advocated techniques make the best of a bad job and worth following but I don't know what I'm going to get before it's too late. I can see why brewers are keen to assess their hop purchases before they do so.
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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by f00b4r » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:11 pm

orlando wrote:
f00b4r wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:02 pm
An interesting post Scott Janish on why dry hopping cooler and with shorter contact times may be beneficial in a few ways.
Thanks for posting that. I've read quite a few of his posts and have always learned more from the science than the usual opinion pieces that blight debate in home brewing. There is a factor I have found that is equally, even more important, than time and temperature and that is "aroma out the bag". The quality of the hop matters more. For any given hop there are some more aromatic than others. Poor aroma from the bag, poor aroma in the Beer. The advocated techniques make the best of a bad job and worth following but I don't know what I'm going to get before it's too late. I can see why brewers are keen to assess their hop purchases before they do so.

Very true!

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by f00b4r » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:24 pm

I’m blaming Digby and Hanglow and this thread for jumping in the car this morning and grabbing a load of Franconian (and other) beer this morning. I think I may have well got the last 4 bottles of the Spezial seasonal smoked bock in the country until next October as it’s definitely sold out at the actual brewery and I don’t think they sell outside the area. I got some Schlenkera to do a side by side too (there are also a couple of other smoked beers there but I don’t expect them to be as good).

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by Digby » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:48 pm

f00b4r wrote:I’m blaming Digby and Hanglow and this thread for jumping in the car this morning and grabbing a load of Franconian (and other) beer this morning. I think I may have well got the last 4 bottles of the Spezial seasonal smoked bock in the country until next October as it’s definitely sold out at the actual brewery and I don’t think they sell outside the area. I got some Schlenkera to do a side by side too (there are also a couple of other smoked beers there but I don’t expect them to be as good).

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Bravo! What a nice thing to be blamed for! Image

Have a fab time trying them all. I will have to see what I have in stock at the moment. Not much Franconian (other than my poor attempt at a Rauchbier), but I do have Weihenstephan Korbinian and Vitus, Erdinger Pikantus and a few other offerings from Germany. Then comes the Belgian and Dutch treats... Image

Regards,

Matt

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by McMullan » Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:07 pm

f00b4r wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:02 pm
An interesting post Scott Janish on why dry hopping cooler and with shorter contact times may be beneficial in a few ways.
Very interesting read with sufficient evidence to warrant giving it a go.

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by f00b4r » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:47 pm

McMullan wrote:
f00b4r wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:02 pm
An interesting post Scott Janish on why dry hopping cooler and with shorter contact times may be beneficial in a few ways.
Very interesting read with sufficient evidence to warrant giving it a go.
That’s what I figure too. Also the more I read about pellets and flower hops, from both studies and brewers I trust, the more I want to treat them as almost separate types of ingredients.

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by Hanglow » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:49 pm

You might hate me even more, check out biershopbayern.de they are good for fresh bavarian beer. Although it looks like berlin has you covered!

Weak pound doesnt help though for us in the uk the beers cost about £3 each after shipping. Still worth it though for scratching that itch


One thing i noticed when i open a package of my dried homegrown hops they are full of aroma and really sticky too. Even the hallertau mittelfruh is relatively potent compared to some of the shop bought ones ive got in the past, if not all of them

At least hop packaging has been improved a lot over recent decades with more vac packing and purging
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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by Rookie » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:06 pm

f00b4r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:22 pm
Rookie wrote:
f00b4r wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:02 pm
An interesting post Scott Janish on why dry hopping cooler and with shorter contact times may be beneficial in a few ways.
Good post.
I recently had to bottle a schwartz bier about 40 hours after dry hopping with saaz at 46f (8c).
Were you happy with the results? I get to drink quite a lot of schwarzbier living in Germany, including a lot of stuff never usually seen more than 20 miles outside the brewery (thanks to an amazing beer shop in Berlin that gets hold of the stuff - I was blown away by some Bamberg stuff this Xmas). Except for the new craft beer breweries they seem to usually avoid dry hopping their lagers but it does seem to work well sometimes.
I like the way it turned out. Hop aroma and flavor are there, but mild. I think a bit longer would have been better.
I'm just here for the beer.

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by Jocky » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:49 am

f00b4r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:22 pm
Except for the new craft beer breweries they seem to usually avoid dry hopping their lagers but it does seem to work well sometimes.
For me there's no point in spending the time and energy lagering a beer so it's smooth and clean flavoured and then dry hopping it.
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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by Rookie » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:26 pm

Jocky wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:49 am
f00b4r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:22 pm
Except for the new craft beer breweries they seem to usually avoid dry hopping their lagers but it does seem to work well sometimes.
For me there's no point in spending the time and energy lagering a beer so it's smooth and clean flavoured and then dry hopping it.
I wanted a bit more hop flavor in mine. I fermented for two weeks, dry hopped and bottled. After two weeks to bottle carb I put them in the fridge to lager in bottle.
I'm just here for the beer.

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by f00b4r » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:34 pm

Jocky wrote:
f00b4r wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:22 pm
Except for the new craft beer breweries they seem to usually avoid dry hopping their lagers but it does seem to work well sometimes.
For me there's no point in spending the time and energy lagering a beer so it's smooth and clean flavoured and then dry hopping it.

I know what you mean but it can be great if done well. I have had some great ones and NZ Pilsner and India Pale Lagers are probably going to be around a while. If you ever get a chance to try Donzoko’s Northern Helles then do it, it’s a great example. Reece did his masters in Bavaria (as well as a lot of “research”) so really approached it from a good point of view. A top guy as well, so it’s nice to see him doing so well.

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by Jocky » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:07 pm

I've tried a number (and used to seek them out) but realised very quickly more often than not what I was getting was a Pale Ale. Those hallmarks of a lager - smooth malt flavour with a crispness to it - were hidden under a bale of hops.
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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by simmyb » Thu May 14, 2020 5:11 pm

I gave this a go after reading this article.

One of my favourite beers that I make is a light coloured bitter that I dry hop with Target pellets after reading that Derek Prentice (Wimbledon brewery, Fullers, Youngs and others) was a fan. I use 30 grams of pellets in a 25 ltr batch at 19-20C for 3-4 days. I have made this maybe 10-12 times and am always pleased with the results and could never understand the 'harsh' tag that Target has. It seemed to bring a real freshness(?) to the flavour (Sorry, i'm crap at describing flavours!)

So this time I dry hopped at 4C for 3 days. The difference was marked. I could now see why Target would have that tag as this was very harsh and pretty undrinkable until it had sat in the keg for about 6 weeks. I had split the batch and the other batch had a Fuggles dry hop. This was also far hoppier than previous batches and needed some time in the keg for the flavour to settle down, although once it had, it was lovely.

So my take on this is that the low temp does seem to get more out of the dry hop. I have done a couple of beers since with dry hopping at lower temps. A Kveik yeast IPA that was quite generously dry hopped at low temp had a ton of aroma, far more than previous versions and a Citra pale ale that had a noticably brighter hop aroma. But both seemed to have a slightly bitterer edge that actually worked in these beers. I have a couple more pales on the go and have decided to come up a bit on temp to around 12C to see how that goes.

So my conclusion is that the lower temp gets more out of the dry hop, but a higher temp seems to soften things out a bit. For the moment I will be dry hopping assertive Pales and IPA's at lower temps (around 10-12C) and Bitter's etc at 19-20C or so.

By the way, try dry hopping with Target at 20C in a bitter, I think you will be pleasantly surprised!
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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by Jocky » Thu May 14, 2020 10:58 pm

Thanks for posting that. Really useful to know.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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Re: Shorter, cooler dry hopping times

Post by McMullan » Fri May 15, 2020 12:10 am

It didn't work for me for an English IPA. I sampled twice a day after dry hopping at 2g per litre in the keg. Basement temperature was about 12℃. It started to get nice after about 48 hours, but not where I wanted it. I transferred it about 7 days after dry hopping. To be honest, I found the book quite awkward to read. It was clumsy and failed to review the literature to draw a conclusion so far. I found it all quite random and inconclusive, to the extent pretty much anything could be tried. The author clearly had no background in interpreting the literature, despite his great efforts trying.

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