British hops

[bitter_dave]

Thanks for the write up NB.

I don’t much like beers that taste strongly of mango so I’ll avoid Jester.

Any views on Admiral? It sounds like a potentially interesting hop with an orange type thing going on.

[Northern Brewer]

I wouldn't be too scared of Jester - as I said there, I've only ever really got a big mango hit from the early Faram test brews, in commercial production it seems somewhat variable, but seems to be more blackcurranty with just a hint of a tropical thing. Maybe see if you can find it in a commercial beer, unfortunately it seems M&S have stopped doing their's.

Admiral's OK, it's a pleasant enough oranginess as a late hop but I'm not sure I'd buy it for that purpose, fine to use up some that you've bought for bittering though (and you do use it as you main bittering hop, right, as opposed to Magnum etc?)

[bitter_dave]

Admiral's OK, it's a pleasant enough oranginess as a late hop but I'm not sure I'd buy it for that purpose, fine to use up some that you've bought for bittering though (and you do use it as you main bittering hop, right, as opposed to Magnum etc?)

Thanks for that NB. I was going to do a single hop beer with the Admiral, but it won't be for a while (Ernest one comes first) so I'll mull it over.

[MashBag]

I think an Ernest single hop could be very nice.

[bitter_dave]

Well, the single hop Ernest beer was brewed today and the hops certainly gave off a strong aroma! Smell was glorious. From the Bushell of Hops website - clearly very fresh and well looked after.

Beer was about 1042+ gravity - Marris otter, 200g Dark Crystal, 500g Munich Malt, 500g Pale DME and liberty bell yeast, about 24 IBU. Mashed fairly high in an attempt to retain a bit of body.

Will report back in few weeks time...

[MashBag]

Oooo. I know its breakfast time, but that does sound nice.

Can I ask the hop schedule?

[bitter_dave]

Oooo. I know its breakfast time, but that does sound nice.

Can I ask the hop schedule?

34 g at 30 mins
33g at 10 mins
33g for 15 min soak in wort cooled below 80c

[MashBag]

Thanks. I assume that's a 60min boil.
Below 80. Ooooo I wasn't expecting that. I stand @ 85c for 30 and thought I was extreme.

[bitter_dave]

Thanks. I assume that's a 60min boil.
Below 80. Ooooo I wasn't expecting that. I stand @ 85c for 30 and thought I was extreme.

Nope, 30 min boil. Never do 60 min boils nowadays. Obvs requires more bittering hops, but not hugely so.

The under 80c thing was what I read somewhere tbh - wheeler probably. I’ve started doing this hop steeping in some DME-based wort in a separate pan while the boil is on so I can start cooling the main beer straight away and I add the steeped ‘wort’ to the main beer when it’s ready.

I guess I’m an impatient brewer!

[guypettigrew]

Blimey-30 minutes boil!

That'll be enough to sterilise the wort, but does it pull all the proteins out to give you a clear beer at the end? Do you use Proafloc or similar?

Must also mean your pre boil volume is close to your post boil volume. Which must mean a limited sparge. I'm assuming here we're talking about an all grain beer.

What does your mash efficiency work out at?

As to the post boil hop stand, some people recommend going below 70°C, which is what I do now.

Guy

[bitter_dave]

Blimey-30 minutes boil!

That'll be enough to sterilise the wort, but does it pull all the proteins out to give you a clear beer at the end? Do you use Proafloc or similar?

Must also mean your pre boil volume is close to your post boil volume. Which must mean a limited sparge. I'm assuming here we're talking about an all grain beer.

What does your mash efficiency work out at?

As to the post boil hop stand, some people recommend going below 70°C, which is what I do now.

Guy

It's 30 mins from after the hot break has been dealt with.

I do use protofloc and I chill it with an immersion chiller (which is pretty fast with the temp of water here).

The beers I've made with a 30 min boil have been pretty clear in the glass. I'll upload a photo tomorrow of my most recent beer (brewed a month ago). I bottled it on day 7 with no finings or cold crashing and it was pretty clear going into the bottle (but of course it depends on the yeast). I used to cold crash everything but with this yeast it should be pretty flocculant.

Half hour boil is still long enough to boil off quite a bit of liquid and of course there is hop absorption. It gets quite vigorous in my burco.

Still sparge is required - mash in 2.5 to 3 litres of water per kilo of grain so sparge water still needed.

Mash was 1 hour. I did do 45 min mashes for a while. Did not notice much difference in terms of efficiency. My efficiency has never been all that high tbh, even when I used to do 1.5 hour mashes yonks ago. My main reason for going back to hour-long mashes is that it gives me time to prep other things I need to do later on in the process.

Can understand the logic of steeping at 70c - may give it a try.

After having confessed to the short-cuts above (with some I've not mentioned) let's hope this beer turns out OK

[MashBag]

Ooo. Our thinking is soooo similar.
I do a 45 min boil. Came to the same conclusion.
15m "snot" break + 30.

Pleased I read ^^ I did wonder if I was missing reducing my 45m further.

I am an impatient brewer too, so I have stopped having brewdays altogether.

Is this another thread.....

[Northern Brewer]

Thanks. I assume that's a 60min boil.
Below 80. Ooooo I wasn't expecting that. I stand @ 85c for 30 and thought I was extreme.

Alpha acids isomerise over 80C, so any time you have hops above that temperature will see bittering increase and it's normally considered the upper limit for whirlpool additions.

There's some debate as to the best temperature for such additions, certainly with things like Citra you do get a noticeable difference between 70C and 80C.

[MashBag]

I liked this. I don't think there is one way - you concentrate on what you want to get and enjoy.


Extract from an article from Scott Janish wrote on BYI magazine.

Scott Janish wrote:
Late whirlpool hopping is important for achieving hop saturated flavor because the fruity hop compounds are lost in the boil due to evaporation and trub. One paper found that linalool losses can be as high as 80% of the original concentration within just five minutes of boiling.8 In fact, hydrocarbons from hops have been shown to peak almost immediately when added to boiling wort and then start their decline.9 Sensory tests also show beers that are whirlpool hopped scored higher for estery-fruity and fruity-citrus flavors than beers that were only dry hopped.10 In that study, beers were made with Simcoe® hops with additions at either 60 minutes, 20-minute whirlpool (right after the boil, no cooling was done), and dry hop only (for 48 hours).

So, incorporating late whirlpool hops is an important step to getting hop flavor but factors such as whirlpool temperatures can also play a role as late hopping at 185 °F (85 °C) retained slightly more measured linalool compared to warmer at 203 °F (95 °C) or cooler at 167 °F (75 °C). Sensory differences between the different temperatures showed that beers late-hopped at 203 °F (95 °C) scored highest for citrusy, spicy, and ester descriptors. The 185 °F (85 °C) late hop temperature scored higher for floral and herbal descriptors. The 167 °F (75 °C) hop addition scored the lowest in nearly every category except for the sylvan (woody) characteristic.11 Lowering the temperature of the whirlpool will also lower the isomerization of alpha-acids to iso-alpha-acids, potentially allowing for larger hop additions for flavor vs. bitterness.

Another variable to consider in late-hopping is the hop variety used. Especially looking towards the oxygen fraction of a hop variety as an indicator of its predicted aroma intensity as low oxygen fraction = less intensity, high oxygen fraction = more intensity.12 So, hops high in compounds like geraniol and linalool (part of the oxygen fraction) as well as high in total oil are likely to have a greater impact on hop flavor intensity. Examples of such varieties are Brewers Gold, Centennial, Bravo, Citra®, EkuanotTM, Olympic, Simcoe®, Mosaic®, and CTZ.

.............And TBH it has made me think about getting his new book.

[guypettigrew]

D'you know what? The Scott Janisch stuff seems like a load of twaddle.

He's probably very famous and I'm risking forum suicide by saying this!

Since I've been whirlpooling at 70°C with aroma hops I've given up on dry hopping in the keg. Whirlpooling at 70°C gives far more aroma and flavour to the finished beer than doing the same at 80°C

Guy