Help With Wheat Beer

[J_P]

I am currently sat supping a bottle of Konig Ludwig Weissbier and it has utterly changed my (previously low) opinion of wheat beers .

There is a lovely rich smoky almost Belgian taste to it without any of the bubblegum, cloves or banana that I find so off putting in the majority of other wheat beers I've tried.

I was wondering if anyone knows of a yeast that would produce a similar taste? I can see this one being a real summer thirst quenching alternative to the ubiquitous pale hoppy ales you'd get down the pub. Apparently it's from Bavaria if that's indicative of the style

Cheers in advance

John

[oblivious]

Smoke aroma is a phenol so maybe something like WLP380 Hefeweizen IV Ale Yeast, WLP300 is more bananas

[J_P]

I've just checked the H&G website and I reckon you could be on to something given your descriptions and what I'm tasting. I am really impressed with it so much so I'm going to brew up a batch or two this summer if I can find a yeast / recipe

[steve_flack]

I've used 380 and found it more clovey than smokey. Actually made a pretty crisp weizen.

[oblivious]

You could always burn some of the wort

[J_P]

it tasted a little like the way English leather smells

Oddly enough that's pretty much the aroma I tasted!

What ratio of wheat malt to pale / lager malt would I use and does anyone have an IBU level and hop variety I should aim for / use? At a guess I'd say it was a pretty low level of IBUs, do you recon 15 is about right with something like hersbrucker?

[mysterio]

All German wheat beers have a minimum of 50% wheat so a 50/50 blend of wheat & pilsner malt would be fine, or 60/40. Bavarian beers use hops from the nearby Hallerdau region so Hersbrucker would be perfect, 15 IBUs sounds right.

[J_P]

Superb cheers for your input chaps, there'll be a corni of this getting brewed early summer as it was a cracker.

Should I be worried about stuck mash with that sort of levels of wheat or can this be negated by a rest of some sort of rest (Beta Glucan ) at 40C?

[mysterio]

I've never had a problem with malted wheat mashes personally... you could always use oat husks to improve lautering if you're worried.

An acid rest at 40C will produce ferulic acid in the mash which is a precurser to a phenolic compound called 4-vinyl-guaiacol which gives the distinctive clove flavour (I think).

I just do a single infusion.

[Barley Water]

Interesting question. There are several flavors you can get from a wheat beer yeast (bananna, clove, plumb, vanilla,bubble gum to name the most common) but smoke is not one of them. Surprisingly, the percentage of wheat in the grist has nothing to do with the flavors normally found in a well made weizen. Generally, altering the fermentation temperature and the particular strain used is the way to taylor your beer to the profile you are looking for. I would submit that a smokey flavor would be a flaw in a competition however, if you like the taste of a smoked wheatbeer, who am I to knock it? To add smoke you can either purchase rausch malt from the local homebrew store or smoke some yourself on the barbeque.
Since I am not big on smoked beers generally, I would defer the specifics to somebody with some experience in the fine art of smoking grain.

By the way, I think that decocting a weizen really improves the beer, especially the mouthfeel (it also darkens it up just a little bit so I don't use quite as much Munich malt in the grist).

[delboy]

I made a hefe weizen with wyeasts version of WL300, it had the smokey flavour you mention, to be honest i disliked the flavour and if i was brewing it again i'd be trying to take steps to avoid it.
I'd be interested to hear what the boffins say is responsible for it so i can do the exact opposite

[J_P]

After a quick browse on the White Labs website I reckon I'm going to opt for WLP300 and ferment it at about 22c for a nice even mix of clove and banana. I've had another bottle of this beer tonight and I reckon I can taste burnt bananas with a hint of something else. I'm going to do a 50/50 grain bill and hop to 15 IBU with Hallertauer Hersbrucker. Now I've just got to find time to brew the damn thing as I've another lager and a 3-2-1 bitter lined up