Yeast starter queries

[rpt]

The shipping fee is more than the cost of the item!

[Dave S]

I doubt that many homebrewers who make starters actually sterilise the flask. I've never had a problem with Starsan.

No, I've never had a problem Starsaning a flask either. But given that Starsan is not effective with yeasts or mould, I guess it is an accident waiting to happen.

[orlando]

The shipping fee is more than the cost of the item!

£95 from here, £15 more than it cost me but time and a poor exchange rate accounts for that. Just means it takes 15 brews to pay for itself. You will be brewing more than 15 times won't you?

[Aleman]

All American 930 pressure canner is the way to go. Takes a 5L conical with starter. Sterilised in one go.

[Rad]

This seems to be getting out of hand . Here's what I'd recommend:

1. keep your house (or wherever you brew) clean, no rotten food for molds and fruit flies etc.
2. no pickling where you brew - sauerkraut and beer don't mix
3. get a stir plate, or build one - it's more fun that way
4. get a laboratory conical flask - you can boil, chill and grow yeast without transferring it around unnecessarily, 2L is enough for most 5gal batches but get bigger one if you can
5. keep it clean and don't use it for anything else between your brew days
6. soak it in hot oxi/pbw before using it to get rid of any invisible protein deposits
7. sanitise it with acid based solution (starsan for example)
8. boil for 15 minutes

I don't think you can get anything sterile for more than few seconds in a household environment. If you cover the flask loosely with sanitised alufoil, there will be air exchange moving germs in and out. There shouldn't be enough to hurt it though.

At the end of the day it's down to confidence. If you need a pressure cooker to be confident you've done enough then knock yourself out. I'm happy with my routine even if some say it's an overkill.

[McMullan]

This seems to be getting out of hand . Here's what I'd recommend:

1. keep your house (or wherever you brew) clean, no rotten food for molds and fruit flies etc.
2. no pickling where you brew - sauerkraut and beer don't mix
3. get a stir plate, or build one - it's more fun that way
4. get a laboratory conical flask - you can boil, chill and grow yeast without transferring it around unnecessarily, 2L is enough for most 5gal batches but get bigger one if you can
5. keep it clean and don't use it for anything else between your brew days
6. soak it in hot oxi/pbw before using it to get rid of any invisible protein deposits
7. sanitise it with acid based solution (starsan for example)
8. boil for 15 minutes

I don't think you can get anything sterile for more than few seconds in a household environment. If you cover the flask loosely with sanitised alufoil, there will be air exchange moving germs in and out. There shouldn't be enough to hurt it though.

At the end of the day it's down to confidence. If you need a pressure cooker to be confident you've done enough then knock yourself out. I'm happy with my routine even if some say it's an overkill.

I agree. If you're just plonking a yeast pack into a starter media to wake up yeast, your strategy works fine. However, if you want to maintain and culture yeast yourself, sterility is essential to stop things creeping in. That's a given. The only way to achieve this at home is by using a pressure cooker/US canner. Aleman, didn't they have a bigger one?

[Aleman]

Well yes there was the 941 (41 1/2 quart) but it only adds 1/4" to the height. The 30 quart fits the 5L conical just fine

[Kev888]

There used to be loads of basic used autoclaves on ebay for around £75 or so, essentially big tall pressure cookers some with an integral heating element, often ex-tattoo use. I can't see a single one now strangely.

Personally I don't use heat for starters these days (following an exploded borosilicate jug!). Soaking the flask in bleach solution followed by a rinse with boiled water has been sufficient so far. Some time back I took to also spraying the flask and bung/covering with starsan just before use too; it now seems starsan may not be quite as bomb-proof as hoped but in this regime its only a belt-and-braces addition that can't hurt.

But in essence starters are just making a little brew to grow up the yeast and almost immediately re-pitch into a bigger one, whose FV will likely not have seen lab standard sterilisation either. If we were aiming for many generations or banking yeast long term then autoclaving etc would be much more important.

Cheers
kev

[orlando]

The dividing line is scale. Most starters just need a competitive advantage for the yeast to get going to keep ahead of bacteria, most starters will be able to cope with good sanitation, as rad has listed and kev has described, but once you get into slants or recovering yeast from bottle conditioned beers sterilisation becomes paramount. I've thrown 5 gallons of beer down the sink, along with the hours of effort that went into it. You pays your money.....etc. The role of a forum as I see it is to discuss best practice, then it's up to the reader what they do. Bit like when you are taught to drive by a trained specialist. You can hang one arm out the window whilst operating the stereo once you've passed.

[Waffty]

Personally I use a foam stopper, King Scientific carry them after I asked them to stock them in their Home Brew section. The theory here is that they are porous enough for gaseous exchange but will keep out bacteria.

Orlando,

I have a couple of these foam stoppers off ebay, so thanks for that. So how do you recommend sterilising them? I just plonked them in my pressure cooker but they then come out wet, so id this ok, or should I be bagging the up in one of those sterile bags and use them dry?

Thanks.

[McMullan]

Think carefully before considering an old autoclave. Repairs/maintenance can be very pricey. The main difference between an autoclave and a pressure cooker is an autoclave has an internal timer that starts once it reaches 121*C. The pressure cookers (canners) orlando and Aleman have look spot on for home brewers.

[Kev888]

Yes I agree in many cases, although some autoclaves can be very simple - much like the canners, with just a pressure dial and a seal to go wrong. Though buying an old pressure vessel of any kind is perhaps still a risk

Cheers
Kev

[orlando]

Personally I use a foam stopper, King Scientific carry them after I asked them to stock them in their Home Brew section. The theory here is that they are porous enough for gaseous exchange but will keep out bacteria.

Orlando,

I have a couple of these foam stoppers off ebay, so thanks for that. So how do you recommend sterilising them? I just plonked them in my pressure cooker but they then come out wet, so id this ok, or should I be bagging the up in one of those sterile bags and use them dry?

Thanks.

I put them into the top of my flasks, containing a stir bar too and pressure cook them at 15 psi for 20 minutes, they come out quite dry.

[Waffty]

Thanks, I'll give that a try, I just left them floating in the water at the bottom