Brewing alcohol free

Share your experiences of using brewing yeast.
Robwalkeragain
Hollow Legs
Posts: 361
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:19 am

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Robwalkeragain » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:58 pm

Rookie wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:27 pm
john luc wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:21 pm
Some time ago I heard that the big brewerys were involved with research into a new strain of yeast that can ferment a wort but not produce any alcohol. If such a yeast can become viable then the whole new world of beers that taste like beer with no alcohol would truly take hold. However try as I have I cannot find any information out there :cry: . Anyone know anything [-o<
If no alcohol is produced it isn't fermented.
That’s simply untrue, fermentation is simply bacteria breaking down a foodstuff, it doesn’t neccessarily result in alcohol and there’s lots of other uses for fermentation (bread, yoghurt and hot sauce to name a few).

BarnsleyBrewer
Under the Table
Posts: 1792
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:52 pm
Location: Wombwell (South Yorkshire)

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by BarnsleyBrewer » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:00 am

Alcohol free beer??? :shock: :shock:
"Brewing Fine Ales in Barnsley Since 1984"
- - - - - - - 30 years (1984 - 2014)- - - - - - -
Pints Brewed in 2019......... 416
Pints brewed in 2018.. 416
Pints brewed in 2017.. 416 - Pints brewed in 2016.. 208
Pints brewed in 2015.. 624 - Pints brewed in 2014.. 832

User avatar
john luc
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:23 am

The buzz without the brewers droop \:D/
Deos miscendarum discipule
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie

Robwalkeragain
Hollow Legs
Posts: 361
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:19 am

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Robwalkeragain » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:36 am

john luc wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:23 am
The buzz without the brewers droop \:D/
No such luck, it’s hops that cause that! No getting away! Haha

User avatar
john luc
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 552
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:57 am

Don't they just grow tits :roll:
Deos miscendarum discipule
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie

User avatar
PeeBee
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:01 am

Where I'm up to with this:

This recipe was a bit of a breakthrough: https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2 ... u.html?m=1. Certainly an improvement over "Nanny State" clones (BrewDog). The rye recipe didn't gain much by being brewed to recipe at near 2% ABV, the flavours at 0.5% where just as good. Formulate to maximise flavour and body. Go for low attenuation so you can add more ingredient. So currently:

* Brew with Rye Malt. This grain adds loads of body to what otherwise would be thin beer. Might try oat malt and wheat malt, but it wont add as much as rye.
* Mash at 74C. That's right, 74C. About as high as I'd dare go, maybe 75C or 76C would work? 30-45 minutes is enough.
* BIAB style (full boil-volume mash). No point getting more complicated, and no point sparging either.
* Use crystal/caramel malts and don't worry about using amounts like 50% (unpalatable in a normal strength beer).
* If you must use barley malts, don't bother with "pale" malt, go straight for something more flavoursome like Munich Malt.
* Avoid unmalted adjuncts that will need something (with not much flavour) capable of converting it as well as itself.
* Hop balance is difficult to get right. Use the BU/GU (IBU/SG) ratio to get right balance. My last brew was <6 IBUs and plenty bitter enough.
* Boil hops are a waste of flavour. Use steep (whirlpool) hops for bittering, and later, dry hops.
* Boil times of 30 minutes will be adequate.
* Fermenting in the serving keg is a good trick. Under-pressure (spunding valves). No point adding alcohol with priming sugars (which add no flavour).
* Use dried yeast, you will gain nothing from liquid yeast.
* I've used US-05 yeast (hopeless), S-04 (okay-ish) and the very weak attenuating S-33 (pretty good).
* Fermentation may take a couple of days to get started, then finish in a matter of hours!
* Don't bother aerating, dried yeast will manage just fine.
* The recipe builders don't work properly formulating these recipes. Attenuation will be around 30-45%. The recipe builders might say around 65%, my last 0.5% ABV brew was predicted to come out as 1.3%.
* You needn't fine if using Rye Malt. It will still be cloudy!

Finally: When you've finished a recipe write it up on the forum! There's a dearth of info on these recipes and any snippets will be useful to others.

User avatar
PeeBee
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:55 am

Last recipe:

AFON CEIDIOG 18L (Pale Ale) OG12, 5.9IBU (BU/GU ratio 0.35), FG09, 0.5% ABV, 28% attenuation.

23.7L Water (Soft acid moorland, about 45mg sulphate) chloride added (magnesium and calcium chloride), baking soda and slaked lime to increase alkalinity, sodium metabisulphate to eliminate chlorine. Adjusted to achieve Bru'n Water's "amber full" profile.


0.75kg Rye Malt (Crisp, 25 EBC)
0.25kg Light Munich Malt (Crisp, 22 EBC)
0.20kg Crystal Malt (Crisp, 150 EBC)

1/4 Protofloc tablet
15g Nelson Sauvin (pellets, zero minute, steep 30 minutes at 80-85C)

1pkt Safbrew Ale (Fermentis #S-33)

25g Nelson Sauvin (pellets, 4 days dry hop)

7.2ml NBS Brausol Special (finings - ineffective!)


Procedure as last post. Ferment under pressure (12 psi), served at 7-8C and 8-9psi.

Ferment at 17-18C. Cool (5-6C) before opening keg to add/remove dry hop basket! Repressure after opening keg.

Next time: May "lighten" next attempt with some wheat malt or oat malt (or Munich) in place of some rye malt. May reduce bitter hops a little. There are commercial experiments with yeast specifically for low-alcohol brewing as mentioned above; keep your eyes on them, but don't expect anything for the homebrew market for a few years yet.

Kingfisher4
Piss Artist
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Kingfisher4 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:22 am

Thanks Peebee, really helpful practical ways forward. I didn’t particularly enjoy what I thought of as Rye Molt in standard Rye Beers I have tried, but may be very different here and happy to give it a go in this (and you have pointed out potential alternatives.)

I appreciate I am in the minority on this forum, bottling rather than kegging, But any thoughts on priming sugar / DME and how much alcohol or unwonted sweetness that might add would be helpful.

User avatar
PeeBee
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:08 pm

Kingfisher4 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:22 am
Thanks Peebee, really helpful practical ways forward. I didn’t particularly enjoy what I thought of as Rye Molt in standard Rye Beers I have tried, but may be very different here and happy to give it a go in this (and you have pointed out potential alternatives.) …
I do appreciate your reluctance to use rye malt; it is very strongly (and characteristically) flavoured. My next attempts will be using wheat and/or oat malt in place of rye to see if the other things I've learnt along the way can do away with reliance on rye. I also worry that rye malt might be quite different between maltsters (I use Crisp's). The elevated mouth-feel from rye malt is due to high level's of "beta glucans" apparently; a polysaccharide not a protein. "Beta-glucans" is supposed to be a nightmare in normal brewing (stuck mashes) where steps can be taken to reduce it - don't use these steps for low-alcohol brewing!
Kingfisher4 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:22 am
… I appreciate I am in the minority on this forum, bottling rather than kegging, But any thoughts on priming sugar / DME and how much alcohol or unwonted sweetness that might add would be helpful.
Priming will add approximately a third of the total alcohol in these recipes, and no flavour. Which is why I ferment under pressure (ferment and carbonate at the same time) and keg (I could choose to force carbonate instead, if I did that sort of thing). But if you have the means to bottle carbonated beer, I guess you can come up with something to avoid priming? Bottling pressurised beer (under pressure) requires a means to bulk carbonate (a keg?) and a tool: I have a Pegas tap from Lithuania, a "cheaper" tool (it ain't cheap!) available from a UK stockist is https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product ... le-filler/.

Kingfisher4
Piss Artist
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Kingfisher4 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:08 pm

More brilliant advice, thanks again. I am not looking for commercial potential 0.5% ABV beer, but a better version than any I’ve currently tried, that I can brew at home for personal and friends consumption when driving or wanting to minimise alcohol.

The small increment in extra alcohol from priming sugar therefore will be my way forward, at least for the foreseeable future.

My only attempt at a lower ABV beer so far was a mild at 3% with S-33 yeast, which was enjoyable.

Your tips above will massively help develop this area for me.

PS I will, of course, post updates if and when any success is achieved along these lines.

Kingfisher4
Piss Artist
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Kingfisher4 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:15 pm

Just trying to formulate a recipe or 2 based on your Rye based recipe above PeeBee, but substituting in wheat malt, extra Munich and other non pale malts which I have "in stock" as my next experimental brew, probably also try Caramunich etc in small quantities. S33 already in stock for this sort of low ABV brew. I currently like traditional English hops best and have several of those in stock, with only cascade and hallertauer from further afield, so will experiment around them.

I use a Grainfather with their recipe builder and understand your BU/GU (IBU/SG) ratio principle, but it fails to recognise the IBU for the late post boil hop stand after cooling to 80ish degrees C ( appreciate this maximises the retention of volatile hops oils whilst minimising bittering etc).

Is there any stand alone software that might help? Not yet venturing to Beersmith. Alternatively, a guesstimate to scale up would be fantastic, assuming a 30 minute whirlpool hop stand at 80 degrees to start; in fraction of an IBU per gram or 10gm of leaf hops added per Alpha Acid unit??

User avatar
PeeBee
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:26 am

Kingfisher4 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:15 pm
… I use a Grainfather with their recipe builder and understand your BU/GU (IBU/SG) ratio principle, but it fails to recognise the IBU for the late post boil hop stand after cooling to 80ish degrees C ( appreciate this maximises the retention of volatile hops oils whilst minimising bittering etc).

Is there any stand alone software that might help? Not yet venturing to Beersmith. Alternatively, a guesstimate to scale up would be fantastic, assuming a 30 minute whirlpool hop stand at 80 degrees to start; in fraction of an IBU per gram or 10gm of leaf hops added per Alpha Acid unit??
Bit of a headscratcher that. Whirlpool IBUs is pretty new to Beersmith too, so I don't know of an alternative. But it's all a bit of a guesstimate anyway; controlling the steep ("whirlpool") temperature isn't easy and 10C either way makes big differences (70C won't create many IBUs or more than halves the IBUs compared to 80C, whereas 90C more than doubles the IBUs - and drives off a lot of hoppy volatiles - according to Beersmith). My last one calculated a ratio of 0.35 but tasted more bitter than that.

Despite that, it's easier to control than adding in "guestimates" of boil hops which always seemed to end up massively over-hopped (and offered little flavour too).

(EDIT: If it helps - 12g 12.4% AA hops gave 20.1IBU boiled for 30 mins in a 18L batch and 4.2IBU steeped at 80C for 30 mins, according to BS)

Kingfisher4
Piss Artist
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Kingfisher4 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:06 pm

PeeBee wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:26 am

(EDIT: If it helps - 12g 12.4% AA hops gave 20.1IBU boiled for 30 mins in a 18L batch and 4.2IBU steeped at 80C for 30 mins, according to BS)
Great, thanks. That’s exactly the sort of guesstimate that I can use as a starting point.

Kingfisher4
Piss Artist
Posts: 279
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Kingfisher4 » Thu May 09, 2019 12:48 am

Initial update: just brewed 2nd batch tonight aiming for sub 1% ABV, wheat malt and Munich recipe bases, 1st was fastest ever brewday, with your no sparge and short mash and boils, hit 0.7% ABV, PLUS 0.15 ish for priming. Fast fermentation with S-33, 31% attenuation, darker additional malts and 1st ever dry hop. May be a step on the learning curve.

2nd batch just pitched yeast 3 hours ago, same base malts with paler carapils a little leftover biscuit malt and English hops. Look forward to tasting and updating feedback in a few weeks.

User avatar
domejunky
Steady Drinker
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:58 pm
Location: I can smell France...

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by domejunky » Fri May 17, 2019 5:25 pm

Great thread!

I've just started playing with overnight 10°C mash after reading this:

http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/cold- ... lications/

First turned out OKish - 0.8% - amazing head and mouth feel, bit dry though. I shall be nicking a few tips from above

Post Reply