re using yeast

Share your experiences of using brewing yeast.
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An Ankoù
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Re: re using yeast

Post by An Ankoù » Tue May 04, 2021 9:20 am

guypettigrew wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:05 am
This Saturday's brew will use a Proper Job yeast. This will be the fourth time it's been used since harvesting it from some bottles a couple of months ago.

The yeast is collected by scooping out about 1/2 litre of fermenting beer from the top of the FV 24-36 hours after pitching and when there is a good strong krausen. It's stored in the 'fridge, where a thin layer of yeast settles out, until needed. It's then woken up in 1 litre of malt extract at about 1.040.

How many times do you re-use your yeast? I've always thought 3 or 4 times is enough, given my extremely basic yeast collecting technique and facilities. Getting an infection and losing a batch of beer is not worth the risk.

How often do others renew their yeast?

Guy
I agree with you that unless you've got at least the makings of lab facilities, it's best not to go through more than 3 or 4 generations. This is especially true when you're using a dual yeast like RIngwood or Adnam's. But remember that every bottle of beer made with the original starter is a source of first generation yeast and it can be recultured in the same way that you did with the Proper Job bottles.
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Re: re using yeast

Post by MashBag » Wed May 05, 2021 8:13 am

Thank you for your concern and nice of you to assume my beer is terrible 😘

I didn't say it was a perfect way to capture, but that I have proved it works. Further it is not my only process.

Different folks different strokes.

Some consider dead yeast a good form of nutrition in a fermentation.

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Re: re using yeast

Post by f00b4r » Wed May 05, 2021 10:23 am

MashBag wrote:Thank you for your concern and nice of you to assume my beer is terrible Image

I didn't say it was a perfect way to capture, but that I have proved it works. Further it is not my only process.

Different folks different strokes.

Some consider dead yeast a good form of nutrition in a fermentation.
FYI McMullan’s got a background working with yeast professionally, following some of his advice on starters improved my fermentations significantly.
I would also advocate swapping beer with others too, most of the good brewers I know made a lot of improvements from others reviewing their beers and then getting to try others (both good, bad and indifferent).
I have been thinking about organising an annual JBK swap…..

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Re: re using yeast

Post by Cobnut » Wed May 05, 2021 10:34 am

f00b4r wrote: I have been thinking about organising an annual JBK swap…..
Initial response: ImageImage

But I then I remembered that I’m currently tasting/assessing beer from three different swaps and struggling to keep up and maintain a healthy level of drinking each week (even ignoring the ludicrous 14 units/week that HMG currently advise as a maximum). Timing, I suspect, will be of the essence!

On the topic of starters, I’d be interested to see McMullan’s advice.


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Last edited by Cobnut on Wed May 05, 2021 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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An Ankoù
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Re: re using yeast

Post by An Ankoù » Wed May 05, 2021 11:51 am

Cobnut wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:34 am
f00b4r wrote: I have been thinking about organising an annual JBK swap…..
Initial response: ImageImage

But I then I remembered that I’m currently tasting/assessing beer from three different swaps and struggling to keep up and maintain a healthy level of drinking each week (even ignoring the ludicrous 14 units/week that HMG currently advise as a maximum). Timing, I suspect, will be of the essence!

On the topic of starters, I’d be interested to see McMullan’s advise.


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I suspect that would involve using a ring of plaited pieces of wood dipped into the beer at full ferment and then left hanging in a porch or over the door before using it to inoculate the next brew. This is the way things are done in Norway, I understand. Nothing like a bit of tradition!
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Re: re using yeast

Post by MashBag » Wed May 05, 2021 12:00 pm

f00b4r wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:23 am

FYI McMullan’s got a background working with yeast professionally, following some of his advice on starters improved my fermentations significantly.
I would also advocate swapping beer with others too, most of the good brewers I know made a lot of improvements from others reviewing their beers and then getting to try others (both good, bad and indifferent).
I have been thinking about organising an annual JBK swap…..
McMullan is a fantastic resource for the forum to have, and I was in no way trying to pick a fight.
I am a qualified winemaker, and many years fermenting (aand rattling on about it) has taught me many things - every day the school day and there is always another way....and what are they doing with plaited wood in Norway :D :D

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Re: re using yeast

Post by An Ankoù » Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 pm

https://www.bookdepository.com/Historic ... 1938469558


Check out Lars, If you haven't read his book already, I'd recommend it, it's really fascinating.One of the traditional ways of capturing and harvesting yeast is by making a rough wooden or plaited straw ring and dipping it into the brew to be covered in yeast and then dried in the open air. But it's also a story of survival at the edges of agriculture.

Professional experience of working with yeast? So has our baker! If you want a serious authority on yeast, this is the one: Yeast:the practical guide to beer fermentation by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff. I think White Labs know what they're doing even if they are a pain in the butt with their irregular release of their Vaults strains.
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Re: re using yeast

Post by McMullan » Wed May 05, 2021 1:46 pm

An Ankoù wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 pm
If you want a serious authority on yeast, this is the one: Yeast:the practical guide to beer fermentation by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff.
:lol:

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Re: re using yeast

Post by McMullan » Wed May 05, 2021 1:49 pm

MashBag wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 8:13 am
Thank you for your concern and nice of you to assume my beer is terrible 😘
I have no idea what your beer is like. It's the practice you use for yeast that's terrible. Even Chris White could tell you that.

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Re: re using yeast

Post by MashBag » Thu May 06, 2021 6:53 am

McMullan wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:46 pm
An Ankoù wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 pm
If you want a serious authority on yeast, this is the one: Yeast:the practical guide to beer fermentation by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff.
:lol:
Think I have read it 👍... There have been a few. I measure my brewing library in feet. 😁

FYI... It's not THE practice - it is A practise that I have proved, never said it was optimal. There is often more than one way.

There are brewers operating will all sorts of setups/constraints /budgets and this may suit one of them.
Last edited by MashBag on Thu May 06, 2021 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: re using yeast

Post by An Ankoù » Thu May 06, 2021 7:10 am

MashBag wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 6:53 am
McMullan wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:46 pm
An Ankoù wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 pm
If you want a serious authority on yeast, this is the one: Yeast:the practical guide to beer fermentation by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff.
:lol:
Think I have read it 👍... There have been a few. I measure my brewing library in feet. 😁

FYI... It's not THE practice - it is A practise that I have proved, never said it was optimal. There is often more than one way.

There are brewers operating will all sorts of setups/constraints /budgets and this may suit one of them.
Quite so. I'm not even going to say what I do for fear of being excommunicated and burnt at the stake, But having read White and Zainasheff, at least I know what I'm blissfully ignoring. For me, the absolute must is cleanliness, everything else is secondary. I mentioned traditional practice in Norway and Estonia and them there parts, in a sort of tongue in cheek way. BUT, if they can keep yeast going from generation to generation by letting it dry on a stick and then stirring it back into the beer then perhaps we're being a bit anal over our practices. I said in another post, and it wasn't a joke, that I preferred it when brewing was a branch of sorcery rather than a branch of science.

Edit: Reference to letting a brown sticky mass dry on a stick and using the word "anal" in the same sentence conjures up some unfortunate images. yet I'm sure these fellows wouldn't keep making it if the beer were shite.
Last edited by An Ankoù on Thu May 06, 2021 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: re using yeast

Post by IPA » Thu May 06, 2021 7:14 am

McMullan wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:46 pm
An Ankoù wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 pm
If you want a serious authority on yeast, this is the one: Yeast:the practical guide to beer fermentation by Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff.
:lol:
That was a very restrained reply Mcmullan. Probably too restrained for most to understand.
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Re: re using yeast

Post by MashBag » Thu May 06, 2021 7:21 am

An Ankoù wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:10 am

Quite so. I'm not even going to say what I do for fear of being excommunicated and burnt at the stake, But having read White and Zainasheff, at least I know what I'm blissfully ignoring. For me, the absolute must is cleanliness, everything else is secondary. I mentioned traditional practice in Norway and Estonia and them there parts, in a sort of tongue in cheek way. BUT, if they can keep yeast going from generation to generation by letting it dry on a stick and then stirring it back into the beer then perhaps we're being a bit anal over our practices. I said in another post, and it wasn't a joke, that I preferred it when brewing was a branch of sorcery rather than a branch of science.


Yes indeed.
Yeast managed to survive and thrive long before we even invented the microscope 😁

I am not anti science or knowledge or commercial operations... I am big on thinking "what works for you"

.. And don't get me started on 5 gallon conical fermenters. 😁😁😁

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An Ankoù
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Re: re using yeast

Post by An Ankoù » Thu May 06, 2021 7:44 am

MashBag wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:21 am
. And don't get me started on 5 gallon conical fermenters. 😁😁😁
For or against? I'm a plastic-bucket-man myself. The older and more characterful, the better.

Philosophical question: Is science our servant or our master?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: re using yeast

Post by MashBag » Thu May 06, 2021 8:03 am

An Ankoù wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:44 am
MashBag wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:21 am
. And don't get me started on 5 gallon conical fermenters. 😁😁😁
For or against? I'm a plastic-bucket-man myself. The older and more characterful, the better.
I think the small conical fermenters have been a stunningly successful addition to the profits of the manufacturers and really increased clean up times and in 99% of cases made no difference whatsoever to the beer. Maybe even some chiropractors have seen a boost to their business.

Plastic, me too. One might even have a scratch somewhere 😱😱😱😱😱

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