Isinglass - optimum amount?

[mysterio]

Is there an optimum amount of liquid isinglass to add to a 5 US gallon corny keg? I'm sure I read once that too much is as bad as too little.

[iowalad]

I don't have Palmer handy but I recently looked it up and he quotes 2 ounces (60 mg/liter?).

[steve_flack]

When I used to use the triple F stuff the commercial brewers use I used to dilute it as required and use half a pint of the diluted stuff.

The link below suggests 11-14 ml per liter

http://www.murphyandson.co.uk/FAQs/FAQ_Topic24.htm

The liquid isinglass that Hop and Grape sell is triple F I believe.

[Andy]

Regarding adding finings to a cornie...

Presumably you're using the cornie for dispense also ? Does isinglass sink and take all the gunk to the bottom of the cornie (where some of it will be sucked up into the dispense tube and into your glass) or does it attract the gunk and stick the the cornie walls ?

I've always used finings in a secondary/clearing vessel and then transferred bright beer to cornie for dispense. Sounds like some of you guys are ditching the clearing vessel approach and fining in the dispense vessel - if that works then I'm on board

[Andy]

The problem ( ) with the hogs back yeast is that the yeast cap doesn't dissipate, it just stays there afloatin' So I don't want to disturb that in order to add any finings. Sounds like I'll continue with my process of racking to secondary where I add finings and then transfer bright beer to cornie for dispense. I'm perfectly happy with that, just exploring alternatives

[mysterio]

Andy, I've been adding isinglass to the keg without any problems (apart from the first time I did it too a lager - lager yeasts react differently and the isinglass stayed in suspension). After about a 24-48 hours in an ale it creates a loose deposit at the bottom and you can draw off a pint of gunk, but after that it's clear ale-ing. The only problem with this method is if you disturb the keg you have to draw out more gunk.

Thanks for the replies guys, I think I'll just stick to my two capfuls per gallon method.

[Andy]

Cheers mysterio! Once my kegerator is complete then cornie disturbance will not be an issue - until then I still lug cornies around so perhaps my method of transferring bright beer only to cornie is best currently.

[Doingatun]

I’ve brewed 23L kits – 5 days primary until ferment slows then 10 days secondary racked bright to corny and 4 L pet bottles adding a little yeast slurry to each bottle, perfect every time.

Now doing AG first brew used same method used unfortunately suffered a protein haze no finings used, talking to Joe at LHB gave me the impression that all AG brews require fining?

My second brew is on day 3, bought Aux and dried Isinglass which I’ll prepare today a bit of a pain but more practical for me.

Could someone please explain the procedure - do I do you use Aux in the primary? Isinglass in the secondary? rack to corny and 4 bottles when bright, can I use yeast/finings slurry to condition bottles? I was thinking of reusing yeast how can this be done when fining?

[steve_flack]

You can't remove a protein haze with isinglass. Isinglass is for yeast haze and auxilliary finings only help isinglass work better.

I always do all grain brews and recently have given up fining as I'm not in that much of a hurry as yeast will drop out on it's own given time. So I'd disagree with the idea that all all-grain beers need finings - they don't.

Protein hazes are caused by either high protein malt or a poor hot or cold break. Protein hazes can be avoided by using kettle finings (I find Whirlfloc tablets to be the best) or by using polyclar in the secondary (Brupaks used to do this but not sure they do now.)

I wouldn't use yeast/finings slurry to bottle condition.

[Doingatun]

Thanks Steve & Daab, Very informative think I may see how I get on without finings this time if it's not always needed.

[mysterio]

Daab, I'm inclined to agree about the aux finings working on protein haze.

Someone correct me if i'm wrong here, but I think haze causing proteins have a positive charge, and some yeasts have a negative charge. Aux finings are (I think) negatively charged and attracts the haze causing proteins, while Isinglass is positively charged and works on the yeast. Hence, isinglass and aux finings will cancel each other out if used at the same time.

[steve_flack]

auxilliary finings only help isinglass work better.

Actually after reading around, I was wrong. Auxilliary finings (especially silicated ones) do remove protein from beer for the reasons mysterio mentioned.

-1 to Steve