How long to wait for Wyeast starter to take off?

[BarryNL]

I was making up a starter (Wyeast #1028) last night for a brew this weekend. I smacked the pack around 7pm, by 11pm there was no sign of the pack swelling but I pitched it into a litre of wort anyway. This morning there is no sign of activity and what I assume to be the yeast was collecting at the bottom of the bottle. Admittedly, the pack was made in Dec 2006.

They've always swelled within a couple of hours and certainly taken off over night before; has anyone had one take this long to show any sign of life. If it hasn't started by this evening is it worth giving it any longer or just making up a new starter?

[UserDeleted]

I've not used wyeast for some time now, but IIRC the instructions say to allow 1 day per month past the 'Package Date' So in your case 6 days.

This was one of the reasons I stopped using Wyeast, as trying to plan when to smack the pack so that I had a really active starter when I wanted to brew was unpredictable. I've had much better success with Whitelabs phials.

Having said that I'm sure that youre starter will take off eventually, but not likely in time for your brewing session

[steve_flack]

I think the Wyeast and WhiteLabs vials are much the same WRT to viability and loss of it with time. It's just that the Wyeast Propagator packs have a lot less yeast in them than the WhiteLabs vials.

Unless it's really old/been sat in a hot car/microwaved the wyeast will eventually get going.

[UserDeleted]

I think the Wyeast and WhiteLabs vials are much the same WRT to viability and loss of it with time.

Absolutely, yeast is yeast and it will behave in pretty much the same way no matter which supplier it comes from. As you say however . . . there is MUCH more in a Whitelabs phial

[Oscar Brewer]

In my experience both Whitelabs and Wyeast packs can have low viabilty when received, possibly caused by extreme temperatures when in transit but at least with the Wyeast packs if they take longer to activate than usual a small starter can be made which can then be subsequently stepped up to a proper pitching level. With Whitelabs you have no way of knowing if the vial has been damaged.
Oscar

[BarryNL]

Absolutely, yeast is yeast and it will behave in pretty much the same way no matter which supplier it comes from. As you say however . . . there is MUCH more in a Whitelabs phial

Unfortunately, WhiteLabs seems unheard of over here and its pretty difficult to find someone who supplies Wyeast which isn't already about 5 months old

Luckily I have a few packs of S-04 as a backup plan...

[steve_flack]

Unfortunately, WhiteLabs seems unheard of over here and its pretty difficult to find someone who supplies Wyeast which isn't already about 5 months old

Have you tried Brouwland?

[BarryNL]

Have you tried Brouwland?

I'll have to give them a go. Unfortunately, with a 15 euro delivery charge its only worthwhile if I'm doing a big order. They should be fresher though - as far as I can tell all the other shops get their stock through Brouwland anyway and then keep it till they can sell it on.

[bluesboy]

You could try getting Wyeast/Whitlabs from a UK supplier.

I have had a few infections with Wyeast which was not fully expanded because of the age of the packet means it is a long time before the yeast is active enough to protect with a good layer of yeast.

I usually start sweating if after 24 hours I have no head on the fermenter.

[steve_flack]

I have had a few infections with Wyeast which was not fully expanded because of the age of the packet means it is a long time before the yeast is active enough to protect with a good layer of yeast.

If you're just waiting for the packets to swell and then pitching then you are almost certainly massively underpitching. The 'Propagator' packs even when fresh are not big enough. The much bigger (and more expensive) 'Activator' packs contain a lot more yeast and even those are a bit small for stronger beers.

[mysterio]

Yep, the propegator packs you get over here have about the same amount of yeast as one gram of dried yeast (20 billion cells). You'd need to pitch about ten wyeast smack packs of them into your average beer if you weren't making a starter to get near the recommended pitching rates.

[steve_flack]

In the US it seems that most homebrew stores sell the larger wyeast 'Activator' packs. They cost around $6-7 (£3). Over here we get the smaller 'Propagator' which cost £5 ($10). The recent Timothy Taylor Wyeast was a special and was only available in the bigger packs and the stores here charged around £7.50 ($15)!

Given the low price of the liquid yeasts in the US you can easily understand why they are so keen on them.

[BarryNL]

This morning there's still no sign of life (about 32 hours now).

Actually, when I gave the bottle a shake it did seem like some CO2 was released - but it might not have been - and I thought I could see a couple of white clumps in there, but there no bubbles appearing on the surface or anything

Looks like I might be using an S-04 this weekend.

Is it worth making a quick starter for S-04? Say the night before to pitch around midday the next day - just to get the lag times down a bit, or might this lead to over pitching (one S-04 into ~20L)? Or is it better to just rehydrate and pitch.

[BarryNL]

In the US it seems that most homebrew stores sell the larger wyeast 'Activator' packs. They cost around $6-7 (£3). Over here we get the smaller 'Propagator' which cost £5 ($10). The recent Timothy Taylor Wyeast was a special and was only available in the bigger packs and the stores here charged around £7.50 ($15)!

Given the low price of the liquid yeasts in the US you can easily understand why they are so keen on them.

Hmm, we get 'em a bit cheaper here too. €5 for the Propagator and about €7.50 for the Activators. I think we get most ingredients a bit cheaper - its also only €19.50 for a Munton's Gold Imperial Stout kit. OTOH, we seem to get stung for equipment costs - €95 for a wort chiller!

[steve_flack]

Its' actually cheaper to get Brouwland to ship a sack of Pilsner malt to the UK than it is to buy it here.