Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

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hambrook
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by hambrook » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:40 pm

I had to throw my Fv into the brew fridge to cool for 45 mins as despite the Braumseister saying the temp was 23.5 degrees when transferred into the FV it was nearly 26 degrees!
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Goulders
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Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by Goulders » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:47 pm

Piscator wrote:I've seen it said by Fullers that some of the Gales character came from Brett in ther unlined wooden fermenters.
That was Old a Prize Ale. HSB was fermented at 23.5 for 24 hours to give it the fruit character
Edit: and the "Brett character " apparently came from blending the previous year's batch with the current, which Fullers didn't do at first.

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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by Piscator » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:11 pm

Goulders wrote:
Piscator wrote:I've seen it said by Fullers that some of the Gales character came from Brett in ther unlined wooden fermenters.
That was Old a Prize Ale. HSB was fermented at 23.5 for 24 hours to give it the fruit character
Edit: and the "Brett character " apparently came from blending the previous year's batch with the current, which Fullers didn't do at first.
I imagine it must have been difficult to keep brett out of the cropped yeast in their system, there must have been some background level if they were harvesting from the un-lined fermenters - maybe limiting the number of re-pitches was a way of regulating the level.
How close do you think the 1332/WLP005 strains are to the old Gales strain? I'm working on Ordinary/Butser at the moment.

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Goulders
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by Goulders » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:16 pm

See what Hambrook thinks in a few weeks. I may have a go at doing a Gales brew in a few months for a winter brew mainly for a challenge, but would probably ask Brewlab for a slope

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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by MTW » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:46 pm

005 really seemed to work from the bottom the first time I used it recently. Cleared extremely rapidly. If the WY1332 is anything like that, don't expect to see that much of a whoosh on top.
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by YeastWhisperer » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:48 pm

f00b4r wrote:So I have been following a couple of these Bond method threads and the question that had always occurred to me is how to time high krausen to occur at the right time for pitching, does this only come by experience for each yeast? I guess my concern is around either having chilled wort sitting around for hours or at the other end the worry of the worry not being ready in time (not sure how long high krausen lasts for).
Experience with a strain is the best teacher, as no two strains behave in exactly the same manner after being pitched. That being said, most relatively new White Labs vials will reach high krausen within 12 to 18 when pitched into 1 to 2 liters of well-aerated 1.040 (10% w/v) wort. Some strains will reach high krausen in as little as 6 hours. The presence of a high head should not be used as an indication that the starter has reached high krausen because different strains produce different size heads, and a few strains produce little to no head. High krausen occurs when the wort reaches saturation yeast cell-wise. It's the transition point between the end of the exponential phase and the beginning of the stationary phase. Brown spots will start to appear on whatever head has formed, as organic matter is scrubbed from the wort. It is okay to pitch at low krausen as well. From hambrook's description, his starter was at low krausen.
Last edited by YeastWhisperer on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hambrook
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by hambrook » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:09 am

18 hours later ... we have lift off at 23.5 degrees
IMG_3593.jpg
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by MTW » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:34 am

Too warm for my liking, but you certainly have lift off!
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hambrook
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by hambrook » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:47 am

MTW wrote:Too warm for my liking, but you certainly have lift off!
After 24 hours exactly it drops down to 20 degrees
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by YeastWhisperer » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:42 pm

hambrook wrote:18 hours later ... we have lift off at 23.5 degrees
IMG_3593.jpg
I have never used Wyeast 1332. That's a nice size head. That batch had been actively fermenting for a while at the 18 hour mark.

Wyeast 1332 is either not the Gales yeast strain, or the data that we have on the Gales yeast strain is incorrect. Allegedly, the Gales yeast strain was derived from Whitbread B. Whitbread B is does not form that big of a head. It was selected for continuous use in tower fermentation vessels; therefore, it is a bottom cropper. Wyeast 1332 may actually be NCYC 1332, which was used by the defunct Strathcona Brewery in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. A culture that was plated from yeast obtained from the Strathcona Brewery was passed around the American brewing community in the 1990s. NCYC 1332 behaves exactly like the yeast in your batch. If you want to learn more about the yeast strain, just search on the terms "Strathcona" and "hbd" in Google. You will know if it is NCYC 1332 if you experience heavy top flocculation at the end of fermentation.

There is a brewpub in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada called Spinnakers that uses a British-built brew house and open fermentation. They acquired their pitching yeast from the NCYC. I wonder if Spinnakers is the original North American source for the yeast strain?

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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by hambrook » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:20 pm

YeastWhisperer wrote:Wyeast 1332 is either not the Gales yeast strain, or the data that we have on the Gales yeast strain is incorrect. Allegedly, the Gales yeast strain was derived from Whitbread B. Whitbread B is does not form that big of a head. It was selected for continuous use in tower fermentation vessels; therefore, it is a bottom cropper. Wyeast 1332 may actually be NCYC 1332, which was used by the defunct Strathcona Brewery in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. A culture that was plated from yeast obtained from the Strathcona Brewery was passed around the American brewing community in the 1990s. NCYC 1332 behaves exactly like the yeast in your batch. If you want to learn more about the yeast strain, just search on the terms "Strathcona" and "hbd" in Google. You will know if it is NCYC 1332 if you experience heavy top flocculation at the end of fermentation.
Well I'm not so sure 1332 isn't derived from Gales Ales; two reasons;

FIRST; take a look at this documentary, films at George Gale & Co in Horndean before it was closed; I've cued the video at the point they have a great shot of the top of the yeast that looks might similar to what I have in my FV:
https://youtu.be/_Zw4bqeyKLc?t=8m44s

SECONDLY; a few select quotes "According to mrmalty.com it is indeed Hales Brewery in Seattle via Gales Brewery UK."; "Hales Ales was opened by Mike Hale in 1983. Mike had been homebrewing since 1980 and after spending a year in England visiting traditional English breweries, in particular Gale’s Brewery, Mike was inspired to come back home and start a brewery. In fact our original yeast strain came home with Mike and was given to him by Gale’s Brewery." Source: http://www.morebeer.com/content/halesalesinterview

Your thoughts.....
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YeastWhisperer

Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by YeastWhisperer » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:18 pm

As I mentioned earlier, either Wyeast 1332 was not the Gales strain, or the source data for the Gales strain is incorrect. Whitbread B does not form a skimmable yeast head; therefore, the Gales strain is clearly not derived from Whitbread B. Whitbread B was selected for use in continuous tower fermentation, which is basically a bioreactor for making beer. In tower fermentation, beer is continuously drawn off of the top of the fermentation vessel, making a true top-cropping strain a bit of pain in the backside.

hambrook
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by hambrook » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:42 pm

Interestingly the ex head of QC at Gales said they used Whitbread B - but the video I posted earlier does not match what you are saying about not having a skiable head.
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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by YeastWhisperer » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:46 pm

NCYC 1026 is Whitbread B.

Here is the strain information for NCYC 1026:

Flocculent.
NewFlo type flocculation.
1:5:4:5:5
O2, DMS 33 µg/l, low acetic, high lactic, diacetyl 0.42ppm only, used commercially in Tower Fermenters (continuous process), non head-forming, no estery flavour. Contains 2µ plasmid.

Depositor: British Brewery
Deposit Name: Saccharomyces cerevisiae
Month of deposit: June
Deposit Year: 1958
Habitat: Ale production strain
Equivalent Strain Designations: ATCC 46785, CBS 6234, CCRC 22576, NRRL Y-11875

Here is the brewing information for NCYC 1026:

Description: N/A
Deposit: > 15mm
Head Formation: No Head
Attenuation: 1.008-1.010
Clarity of Final Beer: 0-10
Fermentation Rate: 8-10°
Flocculence: Flocculent

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Re: Yeast starter questions: Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale

Post by YeastWhisperer » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:51 pm

Home brew trade sources for Whitbread B: Wyeast 1098, White Labs WLP007, and Fermentis S-04.

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