S04 in 1.052

[SiHoltye]

Hi,

I pitched S04 (rehydrated 11g) into my 1.052 brown porter wort (24l 75%Pale, Brown, Choc, Crystal) and it fermented hard (largest krausen ever ½ again the depth of wort) for the first 24hrs at 27-28°C, I then realised it wasn't cooling and chilled it in a bath down to 21°C where it has remained until today (not bath, but temperature!). Five days now since pitch. The SG yesterday and today is 1.022. i roused just a moment ago and will try SG tomorrow to see if lowering. Had hoped to get to 1.014.

Has anyone any thoughts about this? I wondered if the yeast was knackered out after the first 'hot' 24hrs, and so might I pitch another rehydrated 11g (or less)? I know I should ask all this after I've seen if the SG moves tomorrow, but I'm just so impatient!

Thanks for comments.

[SiHoltye]

OK, watch this space. Cheers for now.

[SiHoltye]

24hrs on and still SG at 1.022. I have rehydrated a new 11g S-04 and added it to the fermentor with a non-aerating swirl around. Temperature is a constant 22°C. It's out of my hands now.

[SiHoltye]

Perhaps the high temp (28°C) and then cool (in cold water bath for 6 hours to 22°C) in the first 2 days of fermentation was not ideal. In future I must ensure wort temp is more yeast agreeable before pitching. Should get easier as we get into cooler autumn as well.

From reading Charlie Papazian's Joy of Homebrewing I have learnt that in the first 'respiration' stage of yeast in your wort it takes out the available O2 to use through it's life cycle. So when I re-pitched a rehydrated 11g pack of yeast yesterday, perhaps there was not enough available O2 for this yeast to prepare itself for it's lifecycle. Since you mustn't add air to the wort once any fermenting has taken place, perhaps I should've made a re-pitch starter, decanting off medium, so the new yeast would have taken it's O2 from the starter wort, and can then run through it's lifecycle in my under attenuated brew, converting the available sugars. Merely rehydrating the yeast would only have done just that, probably not started it off so to speak.

Is this logic OK. Would stuck ferments be better finished with a started yeast without the medium?

This is how we learn chaps, improve my knowledge please!

[SiHoltye]

Thanks Daab. Will enviro-acclimatize any future re-pitch. (More importantly don't temperature shock yeast in the first place!)

I have the room to let this linger in the corni, so I'll leave this one alone for as long as I can. I'll carry over a little sediment when racking and leave somewhere 17°ish (my kitchen!). Perhaps in time it'll get there.

[Aleman]

Daab is more or less correct,

If you are using a dried yeast the requirement for good aeration is very much reduced provided that you pitch sufficient yeast, and you do not intend to reuse the yeast slurry. The reason is all to do with sterol synthesis, sterols are a major component in yeast cell walls, and dried yeast are grown in an environment that allows them to build up a reserve of sterols so that when you pitch them, then can bud and grow until the sterols run out. The reason we aerate well is to allow the yeast to build up a higher evel of sterols to use when they are repitched. If we are not repitching then this requirement for an excessive period of aeration is very much reduced.

However, some yeast (SO4 comes to mind ) appear to be poor attenuators if pitched into poorly aerated wort, which to my mind suggests that the culturing condiftions at DCL are not building up a high enough sterol level.

There have been some interesting reports that suggest aerating the slurry with pure O2 can have a massive impact on fermentation once that slurry is pitched into the wort. I don't yet have the equipment here to try it, but I'm working on it

[SiHoltye]

Looking forward then, can you suggest a more suitable yeast for lower O2 concentrations?

Sorry, can you brew, drink and pee out my beer for me too!

edit: am not meaning to be rude, personal frustration at my lack of instantly recall-able knowledge. More homework required, and I must keep to ferment temps in future!!!

[Aleman]

Looking forward then, can you suggest a more suitable yeast for lower O2 concentrations?

The obvious one is Nottingham, Windsor is ok, but is another poor attenuator. US56 (Has been renamed/numbered) is another possibility but I've yet to use it, having been converted to liquid yeasts over the past numphty numph years

Sorry, can you brew, drink and pee out my beer for me too!

Always happy to oblige in any way I can, I rather like the idea, you brew it, I'll drink it . . . .And of course you'd be happy to pay my professional fees as well

am not meaning to be rude, personal frustration at my lack of instantly recall-able knowledge. More homework required, and I must keep to ferment temps in future!!!

I consistently annoy my wife with my poor memory, being totally unable to remember the simplest of things I've been asked to do, and yet somebody ask me about some fact I've read 20 years ago and I can recall it instantly. I've lost count of the number of brew cock ups that have happened to me, Make a note of it, learn from it and move on. Lifes too short to cry over spilt beer

[SiHoltye]

WOOHOO!

It's a rollercoaster this brewing malarky (only when you cock-up it is!)
Although I used up another 100ml to see, the SG has fallen to 1.018! Its moved 4 points in 2 days and shows that fermentation is still occuring, and in time I may get close to my desired FG 1.014. In other terms my brew 2 days ago was a Porter of about 3.9ish%ABV (wanted 5%) and now is 4.4ish%ABV. Plan to keg on Saturday and I think conversion will slow again after tomorrow (day 3 of repitch) as the new yeast starts to think about dropping out, but just maybe it'll be close to 1.014 by Saturday. Tastes great! (Drink all samples) It is supposed to be like Fullers London Porter. I love dark beers though am yet to be convinced about stout (not a real fan of roasted barley.) In the winter I'm a real fan of heavier stuff, food and beer. I like to drink beer in the winter that makes you think I might not bother with dinner, I'm full already! This Brown Porter may not turn out that heavy, but it is a step along that path, the choc and brown makes it sooo tasty.

I'd definately suggest this recipe, and brew it again myself.

4.15 kg Pale Malt (5.9 EBC) Grain 75.87 %
0.66 kg Brown Malt (150.0 EBC) Grain 12.07 %
0.55 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 10.05 %
0.11 kg Chocolate Malt (500.0 EBC) Grain 2.01 %
75.00 gm Fuggles [4.50 %] (90 min) Hops 33.4 IBU
25.00 gm Fuggles [4.50 %] (30 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops

Est Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.89 %
Bitterness: 33.4 IBU
Est Color: 38.8 EBC

[David Edge]

I may get close to my desired FG 1.014

Given the low fermentability of darker malts and the residual sweetness desirable in a porter to offset the roastiness, quarter gravity might not be a particularly good idea.

The beer that won the 2004 CBA championship was roughly to Brakspear's 1812 porter recipe and fermented down from 1063 to 1022. The judge felt that it could have done with a little less attenuation.

[SiHoltye]

Thanks David. Kegging will be saturday regardless, due to time pressures on the amateur brewer! Am considering bottling an amount to put into a Homebrew competition at Cheers in Sutton on 17th November. It is within that competitions style guidelines for Porter (not planned) and it would be interesting to hear the comments of 'judges'. By the sample jar it'll do me though whatever their thoughts.

[David Edge]

Am considering bottling an amount to put into a Homebrew competition

Oh do! And make the most of the judges - they may only write a few words on the comment label but will hand over a wealth of knowledge if you speak to them.

[SiHoltye]

I plan to bottle and keg straight from primary FV as my bottling stick fits the tap on this fermentor and no other (oversight)! For priming I thought of about 30g of Light spraymalt mixed with the littlest water it'll boil in (to sanitize), split into 12 bottles via tiny funnel. The rest of the batch gets 100g treated the same fashion in the bottom of the corni before filling.

Just putting this out there for 2 reasons:

Firstly, I have only ever primed with table sugar before, and like the idea now of sticking to beer ingredients (spraymalt=dried malt)

Secondly, I think you need to use more DME than table sugar, but don't know how much more, and would hate this to be too fizzy, it'll be opened by judges!

PS. Wish I hadn't used the bottling bucket tap on this fermentor, life would be simpler without tiny funnels!

[David Edge]

Help! I've drink too much - can somebody help the fellow with Spraymalt vs table sugar. If nobody does use twice as much spraymalt as table sugar.

You supply six bottles, one unlabelled for judging. Pick the one with the smallest yeast deposit would be my advice for the unlabelling!

Remember judges will open it at room temp. USUALLY the judge only gets cheesed off by twits who use about two tablespoonfulls of sugar - or more usually get a bacterial infection leading to over condition. Flat and explosive get marks deducted.

Don't drop your racking cane to the bottom of the vessel for racking to bottles. Damn. You're bottling from primary. Well choose the lowest deposit anyway.

Use a pippette for priming - a cheeky request for an info pack from the CBA asking for two pippettes will probably result in two hitting the doormat.

You're me best mate

d.

[bandit]

"I've drink too much".....time for bed