Increased Diacetyl required

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AnthonyUK

Increased Diacetyl required

Post by AnthonyUK » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:50 am

I would like to replicate the caramel/toffee apple characteristics common in double drop beers which I understand is from increased diacetyl.
Any searches only tend to show the US view which is that diacetyl in any amount is a bad thing but in our English styles it is something I really like.
I thought I'd replicate the double drop method but can anyone give some pointers for the fermentation profile please and which yeast strain would be best to use?

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PhilB
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Re: Increased Diacetyl required

Post by PhilB » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:54 am

Hi Anthony

I don't know anything about double dropping ... but I have followed the approach discussed over on that thread (link), managing a temperature profile of pitching at 17C, allowing to rise to 20C, then cooling back to 17C after some of the fermentation has done, and managed to get some diacetyl impression in a TTL clone :?

Cheers, PhilB

AnthonyUK

Re: Increased Diacetyl required

Post by AnthonyUK » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:40 pm

Thanks PhilB.
That thread is useful regarding the fermentation profile which makes sense e.g. avoiding any form of d-rest.
With double drop you transfer the wort 24-48 hrs after fermentation has started to remove most of the trub and aerate the wort again which increases diacetyl production.
It will be a balance to get it right but if overdone I believe it does fade over time.

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PhilB
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Re: Increased Diacetyl required

Post by PhilB » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:21 pm

Hi Anthony
AnthonyUK wrote:That thread is useful regarding the fermentation profile which makes sense e.g. avoiding any form of d-rest.
... yes, but AIUI, it's not just avoiding a d-rest that's important there ... the pitching cool and allowing to rise, is part of the process of encouraging the yeast to multiply incredibly quickly, throwing (more of) those (by-product) flavours in the process :? ... I suppose with German wheat beer yeasts or funky Belgian yeasts we'd call that "stressing the yeast" and do it to encourage them to throw the flavours we want, whether banana, clove or "funk" :? ... perhaps dropping the fermenting wort off the trub and re-aerating it, in a "double drop" style, does something similar :? ... and if you're going to incorporate that into your fermentation routine you may want to include a pitch low and rise step before you do, too :?
AnthonyUK wrote:It will be a balance to get it right but if overdone I believe it does fade over time.
... like the guys on that thread experienced, I got a lot of acetaldehyde (strong green apples flavour) from following that temperature profile ... so much so that I couldn't taste anything but at packaging stage :roll: ... but primed and left to carbonate/warm condition, that sorted itself out (well I guess the yeast sorted it for me, really :? ) and left a beer with a hint of diacetyl ... you may need to be prepared to face similar problems, but good luck with it. I'm very interested to see what you do and how it works out for you :wink:

Cheers, PhilB

MTW
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Re: Increased Diacetyl required

Post by MTW » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:48 pm

Pitch low with WY1469 (West Yorkshire) and you'll have it. I tried it once and got masses of popcorn taste throughout fermentation, though a diacetyl rest shifted much of it at the end... I didn't want it for that beer.
Busy in the Summer House Brewery

YeastWhisperer

Re: Increased Diacetyl required

Post by YeastWhisperer » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:17 pm

Brewlab F-40 throws toffee apple if pitched low.

AnthonyUK

Re: Increased Diacetyl required

Post by AnthonyUK » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:52 am

Cheers all.
I'll have a look at what yeast my LHBS has in.
F-40 is not one I have seen though.

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johnmac
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Re: Increased Diacetyl required

Post by johnmac » Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:57 pm

"Pitched low" is that low temperature, or low cell count?

MTW
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Re: Increased Diacetyl required

Post by MTW » Fri Nov 20, 2015 11:57 pm

johnmac wrote:"Pitched low" is that low temperature, or low cell count?
I meant low cell count.
Busy in the Summer House Brewery

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