Fuller's Yeast Creeping Attenuation

Thorbz · Post by **Thorbz** » Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:29 pm

Anyone have a solution for this ? I've used Whitelabs, Brewlabs and the real deal cultured from Bengal Lancer, all have become over-carbonated in the bottle. I love the character I get from this yeast, but unless I can find an answer to this problem I'll be keeping it for the beers I put into a barrel. I haven't tried WLP005, which is supposed to be similar, does it suffer the same problem ? I don't rush to bottle and I've always had an attenuation figure in advance of the expected FG ( up to 80% ).

TIA.

jaroporter · Post by **jaroporter** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:16 am

no solution as of yet but very much the same "problem" so it may be reassuring knowing it's not just me going crazy. we've even suspected a slight contamination (brett or something). currently trialling larger pitch rates and oxygenation to encourage complete attenuation first time round, which is something i wanted to do regardless really..
interested to see others experiences.

haven't had the same issue in my limited experience with 005. great flavour on that one.

Post by **f00b4r** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:49 am

Have either of you tried the fast ferment method (?) on a litre of the wort to check what final gravity should be?

MTW · Post by **MTW** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:21 am

Good call ^^

Have you raised the temperature by the end, maybe 22-23C? With my bottles subject to summer shed temperatures, I do this as standard: if the yeast is going to find new pathways, I want to do it in the FV, not the bottle. The one time I used it, it did indeed drop quicker than anything else, so a rouse on day 3 or so may be a good plan. That went to keg and was force carbed, though doesn't seem to have overcarbed itself since (and wasn't fined) while it has stood. Without getting into the secondary FV debate, it wouldn't hurt to try racking it also, if you're not already, just in case that spurred any extra attenuation. I'm about to use it again, bottling this time, so I'll be doing all the above!

jaroporter · Post by **jaroporter** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:03 am

great suggestions guys

i started doing FFT last few brews for this reason, but it's still too early and too little data to draw too much info. they seem to be fermenting out to within a point of the FFT FG though. do i trust the FFT though haha?
for me the temp raise is standard fermentation profile, and i totally agree with the reasoning of simulating bottle conditions - i've thrown a bit of sugar in the FV to simulate priming a beer with a high FG and it dropped five points. glad that didn't happen in the bottle!

Clibit · Post by **Clibit** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:17 am

Bottle conditioning is a skill I'd love to master. I've come some way, but I still get under and over carbonated batches. I would honestly go for kegging with CO2 if I didn't have a fear of the technology involved. I read an article by the Hardknott brewery chap who went through their experiences with bottle conditioning which culminated in them force carbing. And he explained that very few breweries do genuine bottle conditioning, it's mostly a fake job to get on the real ale list. Because it's incredibly difficult to get consistent results.

Are there any yeast strains for primary fermentation that are particularly good for those of us who bottle condition? And are there any that are to be avoided? I've read posts by people having problems with 002 and 1968 plenty of times.

MTW · Post by **MTW** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:21 am

Clibit wrote:Are there any yeast strains for primary fermentation that are particularly good for those of us who bottle condition? And are there any that are to be avoided? I've read posts by people having problems with 002 and 1968 plenty of times.

WLP007

Clibit · Post by **Clibit** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:24 am

MTW wrote:
Clibit wrote:Are there any yeast strains for primary fermentation that are particularly good for those of us who bottle condition? And are there any that are to be avoided? I've read posts by people having problems with 002 and 1968 plenty of times.
WLP007

Thanks. I assume you mean good rather than to be avoided?

Do you use it a lot, and specifically for this reason?

MTW · Post by **MTW** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:32 am

Clibit wrote:
MTW wrote:
Clibit wrote:Are there any yeast strains for primary fermentation that are particularly good for those of us who bottle condition? And are there any that are to be avoided? I've read posts by people having problems with 002 and 1968 plenty of times.
WLP007
Thanks. I assume you mean good rather than to be avoided?

Do you use it a lot, and specifically for this reason?

I have found it to attenuate very well, and then stick like the proverbial to the bottles. Not QUITE as lead-booted as 002, but still excellent. Used it with a decent starter in several hoppy pales, keeping it at the cool end (18ish) for the first two days.

Clibit · Post by **Clibit** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:18 pm

Ok thanks.

MyQul · Post by **MyQul** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:44 pm

Try rousing the yeast after about a week. I was finding my english strains (WY1469, Shepard Neame bottle culture), because they're so flocculent, I was getting a touch of diacetyl as they didn't seem to be cleaning up after themselves. Rousing cured this. Similarly it may cure over attenuation along with as already mentioned raising the temp near the end of fermentation. Get the lazy buggers working again instead of chillaxing on the bottom of the FV

serum · Post by **serum** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:23 pm

How are you priming exactly nd how much sugar are you using for each batch?

Thorbz · Post by **Thorbz** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:13 pm

I batch prime with 65g of dextrose for 23L. This is the only yeast I've used where I get over-carbonation. I've tried rousing the yeast towards the end of fermentation and bumping the temperature up a couple of degrees.

IPA · Post by **IPA** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:08 am

Thorbz wrote:Anyone have a solution for this ? I've used Whitelabs, Brewlabs and the real deal cultured from Bengal Lancer, all have become over-carbonated in the bottle. I love the character I get from this yeast, but unless I can find an answer to this problem I'll be keeping it for the beers I put into a barrel. I haven't tried WLP005, which is supposed to be similar, does it suffer the same problem ? I don't rush to bottle and I've always had an attenuation figure in advance of the expected FG ( up to 80% ).

TIA.

You have not mentioned a figure here. At what gravity are you bottling and do you add any priming. How long is the fermentation and at what temperature.

Jocky · Post by **Jocky** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:53 am

Over/creeping carbonation in the bottle is obviously caused by something fermenting residual sugars in the bottle. So there's two possibilities:

1. The Fuller's yeast does tend to flocc out early compared to others leaving unfermented sugars and some diacetyl. After you bottle and the bottles warm to above their fermentation temperature the yeast are activated again and start to eat those sugars.
Raising the fermentation temperature after a few days will help wring out the last of the activity in the yeast and largely remove this as a problem.

2. A very low level infection of wild yeast or bacteria. Everyone's beer is infected to some level, but it only really affects taste when the infection seriously takes over. In your case this may be accentuated by the yeast's characteristics of leaving sugars unfermented.

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