Yeast the culprit for murky beer?

[george151]

Hi all,

I've been brewing for 6 years but have only recently started to have the ambition of achieving really clear beer. It's never been bad, just not great. Recently, I moved to All Grain brewing with Boil in a Bag. At the end of the mash and boil things are crystal clear, so I thought I had it, but the final product ends up murky. This means that the murkiness can only be from the fermentation stage. My friend brews with dried yeast and achieves superb clarity whereas I use Wyeast smack packs. I have tried gelatine and Isinglass and even both in the same brew (a few days apart) but with only partial success. I don't have a fridge anymore but I have tried strapping ice-packs to the fermentor and/or keg too as I know gelatine at least works better with low temperature, but again without total success.

Could it be that there's just too much yeast in a full smack pack for a 20L brew? The fermentor is conical so all the dead yeast and trub falls to the waist without any issue.

A bit stumped at what else to try so I would appreciate any advice.

Cheers all,

Andrew

[Dennis King]

I use whitelabs yeast and have never had a problem. Have used Wyeast years ago and don't recall any problems.

[edgearsenal]

Do you use a lot of hops in your brews? Hop forward beers do struggle to clear. At certain low temperatures you can experience chill haze.
Also how long are these beers being left and how are you conditioning them and serving them.

[Bad 'Ed]

My beers are susceptible to chill haze - fine at cellar temps but hazy out of the fridge. Are yours served cold?

[Kev888]

There are many strains of yeast with many different characteristics; some settle out more quickly than others so its less a dried/wet yeast divide but may be a difference of strain. Although if the yeast have struggled it may be a contributing factor and dried yeast tend to be more robust. There won't be too much viable wyeast in a pack, but possibly the reverse as wet/liquid doesn't keep/travel so well as dried - under-pitching may not help matters. And wet yeast need good oxygenation of the wort whereas dried cope much better if that is lacking.

However it may also not be the yeast; haze can be caused by other things that may not be apparent in the initial run-off, such as proteins or hops. The grain type, dry hopping, kettle finings, boil vigour, wort cooling, calcium in the water, time and temperature at various staged can all play a part.

As can expectations; unless you fine and/or filter finely its normal for beer to be a tad hazy. Its possible to make it as clear as certain commercial products by filtering and fining heavily, but go too far you will also take some of the flavour with it. TBH unless it tastes yeasty or is badly hazy it may not be especially broken and fixing the effect (rather than the cause) could be detrimental

[Fil]

you mention kegs? pressure barrels? even with strapping ice packs to them i doubt that would effect a chill haze, Metal kegs however could be chilled enough with ice perhaps?

my bottled beers if chilled down to 4/5c in the fridge will invariably have a chill haze, but that tends to clear with a temp rise to 12c-ish. and the corny kegged brews can also get a chill haze mid winter too.

ive only used a couple of smack packs, and i dont recall either being an overly murky brew.

though a simple test brew using a dry yeast could shed some light on your predicament.

[george151]

Cheers all,

I doubt it's chill haze as it's there at any serving temp, however temp might be the issue on the finings point of view despite the ice blocks - I brew in my shed which gets warm whenever there's any sun on it just like with a tent.

My friend has a cellar so brews there, but he doesn't use finings at the end, so I've no idea beside the yeast. Yes, I've thought about just trying one with dried yeast, although all I've read says dry tends to be inferior.

The beers haven't been overly hopped, but I guess it could be due to them!

Thanks anyhow, as I said, the beer tastes good anyhow, and I'm only trying to sort this now I've got all the basics down!

Andrew

[McMullan]

Have you tried racking to a secondary and leaving it there for a while, reducing the temperature towards to end? Failing that, you could use a filter, like commercials, but your beer would be stripped down to clear piss water!

Edit: There is too much 'crafted' piss water too, these days.

[tourer]

Do you use a secondary fermentation bucket to finish? I've found my beers clear very well, in fact my last brew was so clear in the priming bucket i thought i had cocked it up (no yeast left) the beer looked lovely and clear as i was bottling. But it was OK as there is normaly yeast left in there. Give it a go.
good luck

[george151]

I have a conical fermentor so all I've read says I shouldn't need a secondary. I do turn off the heater and leave it for a day or two before transferring.

[dbambrick996]

If you can cold crash your beer and add some gelatine you will have very clear beer. This will take care of yeast and hop debree.

What yeast are you using? Are you using too much fining near the end of the boil a quarter or a half a whirlfloc tablet is the correct amount for 20 litres.
Are you getting a good cold break when chilling your beer. Also are you squeezing the bag at the end of the mash.

[nigelsch]

Just a side thought.

Note your location, and assume that your water is not that hard. Higher calcium levels help produce crystal clear results.

Your mate, sounds similar location. Any difference on his water treatment (gypsum?).

My location is very hard water, 130Ca. Ive never added any clearing agents, I simply chill at the end of ferment
in conical & barrel. Never had a problem on ales or lagers.

Although ive bought a RO thingy & used this for part water in my last lager. This one did have some chill haze in,
the first ive ever had. The Ca on this was <30 the lowest ive used for lager. Hence pointer maybe?

I doubt its liquid yeast.

Good luck, Nige

[McMullan]

A day or two two isn't enough time, even for highly flocculant yeast strains, for green beer to clear. At least double the time used for primary. Then cold crash for at least a week or two. Then rack, bottle/keg, clear beer. Sample occasionally, you'll know when it's clear.

[orlando]

Achieving clarity can have a number of points at which if the right technique is missing you can fail to achieve your aim. Getting your mash pH is the starting point between 5.2 - 5.6 is what your aiming for, 5.3 for Pales is a sweet spot. Calcium is mentioned and I fully agree with this circa 150 is again a sweet spot. A really hard boil helps to precipitate proteins that are problematic, again pH is critical to this. Use kettle finings at the right ratio and always let the wort settle out so that perfectly clear wort goes into the fermentor. Finally, once the brew has started to clear down crash chilling for a minimum of 3 days as close to <5c as you can will help enormously. Rack off onto gelatine and leave for a minimum of 24, preferably 48 hours and you are in the £ seats.

[george151]

OK, thanks guys. I will certainly try leaving it cool for longer at the end of fermentation. Just to clarify (boom boom), after the boil I am achieving crystal-clear liquid, so the murk definitely comes on at fermentation. I haven't measured pH/Ca but I'll start to, although it's not known as a hard water area. My friend is actually down in Leeds so the water will be different but I'm thinking a potentially bigger difference is that he brews in a cellar which is nice and cool with no sun whereas I only have a shed which can get very warm if sunny. The fermentor is tough-walled plastic and I keep it at the back away from the window but it isn't totally opaque so perhaps some sort of reflective curtain in front of it would help too?