Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

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TheSumOfAllBeers
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Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:54 pm

I have had good luck with both Belle Saison and Fermentis B256/abbaye.

But looking for an alternative for my next belgian project. Perhaps a dubbel, another single or a chimay blue clone.

Any suggestions? With real experiences too - I can read manufacturers product descriptions, but I want to know if they stand up to it.

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Sadfield
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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by Sadfield » Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:59 am

Doesn't look like there are many options for Dry Abbey/Trappiste yeasts, B256 or Danstar Abbaye (plus some repackaged versions from MJ etc). I have no experience of either as I use Wyeast Belgian Abbey II for my Belgian ales, but what I would say is that you may already use your alternative, in B256. Belgian brewers tend to use the same yeast on all their beers and with its fermentation range of 12-25c there is plenty you can do to adjust the flavour profile of B256, making it a versatile "house" yeast. The skill in Belgian brewing is stressing the yeast just enough to create a balance of 'off' flavours without going too far. It is amazing how complex they can be given the simple grists and hop bill.



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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by soupdragon » Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:18 am

When I was looking for a dry version of fullers esb yeast the standard munton ale yeast was mentioned on a few comparisons. I contacted them to ask and they said it's actually a Belgian style strain. It might not be suitable for your usage but could be worth considering?

Cheers. Tom

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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:02 pm

So the MJ dried stuff is just repackaged other yeast?

B256 is good, and I think it suits darker Belgians, but looking for variety

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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by soupdragon » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:15 pm

Take from this what you will, I quote the email from Graham Sutton........

Hello Tom, many thanks for your enquiry. The Standard ale yeast is packed from a Belgium Style Ale yeast which can also be used as a general purpose beer yeast. Regards Graham

Sorry it's not much help though

Cheers. Tom

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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by BrannigansLove » Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:38 pm

Out of interest, why does it have to be a dry yeast?

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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by 6470zzy » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:57 pm

TheSumOfAllBeers wrote:I have had good luck with both Belle Saison and Fermentis B256/abbaye.

But looking for an alternative for my next belgian project. Perhaps a dubbel, another single or a chimay blue clone.

Any suggestions? With real experiences too - I can read manufacturers product descriptions, but I want to know if they stand up to it.
I have made some good Tripels using T58, it is a robust fermenter with a spicy profile.

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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by AnthonyUK » Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:34 pm

I'm not sure if it is still available but MJ M27 Belgian Ale yeast has always been reliable for me and doesn't add too much Belgian-ness.
It has a slightly spicy profile which may suit your style.

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Sadfield
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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by Sadfield » Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:04 pm

TheSumOfAllBeers wrote:So the MJ dried stuff is just repackaged other yeast?

B256 is good, and I think it suits darker Belgians, but looking for variety
I think it's well documented that Danstar Nottingham is also Gervin Ale, so given that Lallemand/Danstar are open to their yeast being rebranded, I'd be surprised that MJ don't also do the same given the similarities in both ranges.

Drying yeast is a notoriously difficult process and MJ launched with a complete product range, I'm sceptical that they have setup their own manufacturing and sourced their own strains. NZ company, yet manufactured in UK?

But, maybe I'm just cynical.





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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by rpt » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:26 pm

Until MJ came along there were few UK dried yeasts so I'm not sure what they have repackaged. Danstar are made in Austria and Fermentis in France or Belgium.

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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by Sadfield » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:50 pm

rpt wrote:Until MJ came along there were few UK dried yeasts so I'm not sure what they have repackaged. Danstar are made in Austria and Fermentis in France or Belgium.
Lallemand (Danstar) do have yeast plants in uk, according to this...

http://www.lallemand.com/about-us/where-we-operate/

"AB Vickers is a Lallemand company." http://www.abvickers.com/about-us/

It is also interesting that imake who own the brand Mangrove Jacks, see themselves as "suppliers" not manufacturers. http://imake.pro/pages/about-us

Apologies to TheSumOfAllBeers, as this thread has been a little hijacked. Sorry.
Last edited by Sadfield on Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TheSumOfAllBeers
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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by TheSumOfAllBeers » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:02 pm

BrannigansLove wrote:Out of interest, why does it have to be a dry yeast?
It's not practical for me to make the big starters, and I often cancel pitching day at the last minute (I no-chill).

Not feasible for me to think about making starters at that scale, without practicing at a smaller scale first

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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by MTW » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:18 pm

TheSumOfAllBeers wrote:
BrannigansLove wrote:Out of interest, why does it have to be a dry yeast?
It's not practical for me to make the big starters, and I often cancel pitching day at the last minute (I no-chill).

Not feasible for me to think about making starters at that scale, without practicing at a smaller scale first
So much is about the yeast in these styles, and I haven't heard anything convincing about dry strains available... with the exception of saison strains: I've tried some excellent samples of Belles Saison beers. The 'abbey' examples I've tried with T58 were fairly lacking in character compared to anything I've done and tried with liquid yeast. WLP 530 and 550 are fantastic.

You do have another option, I guess, which is to just spend £££ on more than one vial of liquid, perhaps combined with a reduced batch size, and nothing in super high FG territory. Sans starter. I haven't tried it, but I guess it's an option.
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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by BrannigansLove » Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:01 pm

TheSumOfAllBeers wrote:
BrannigansLove wrote:Out of interest, why does it have to be a dry yeast?
It's not practical for me to make the big starters, and I often cancel pitching day at the last minute (I no-chill).

Not feasible for me to think about making starters at that scale, without practicing at a smaller scale first
I make a 1L starter for most beers, big beers get a 1.5L one. I use an old 5L water bottle from Tesco to house my starter, and follow the Shaken not Stirred approach. I weigh out 100g of DME into a saucepan, and add 1L of water from the kettle. Boil it for a few minutes, and then cool the pan in a sink of cold water. Once below 30c, pour it into my sanitised bottle, and shake it until at least half of the bottle is full of foam, then I pitch my yeast. For a 1.5L starter, use 150g, and 1.5L of water.

When it comes to pitching time, just chuck the whole lot in. The idea is to pitch when the yeast is at high krausen, and at it's most active.

If you typically don't pitch until the following day, just save 1L of your wort, and chill it down in a sink of cold water, and follow the same approach.

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Re: Good dried yeast for belgian styles?

Post by rpt » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:06 pm

Sadfield wrote:Lallemand (Danstar) do have yeast plants in uk.
Fair enough, I'll get my coat.
TheSumOfAllBeers wrote:It's not practical for me to make the big starters, and I often cancel pitching day at the last minute (I no-chill).
You don't necessarily have to make a starter. Wyeast and White Labs say you can pitch their yeast direct - I've successfully done this. Also, if you make a starter but can't pitch it, let it ferment out and then pop it in the fridge until you can pitch.

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