Bottle Conditioned Ale Yeast List - Verification Sought

[J_P]

How Do All

This week I made my first proper yeast starter with some WLP530 yeast and it's worked a treat, there is currently a nice thick layer of yeast cells sat on the bottom of the demijohn .

This has set me wondering about doing the same with yeast harvested from bottle conditioned ales. I can't see it being too much of a problem as long as I'm careful with sanitisation. A bit of googling has turned up this page.

Before I started clashing on and attempting to culture these strains I wondered if someone could quickly check the yeasts page and let me know if this advice / research is sound.

Cheers folks

[steve_flack]

I've cultured the Belgian St Bernardus strain on a Petri dish - that was before I found out it's not the primary strain

[Dan]

i did that with a westvlateren i picked up at my local belguim bar.
It was a dissapointment. I later went on to make an excelent clone using liquid yeast.

[steve_flack]

Really? I thought they bottled with the primary strain. It's the same as WLP-530 anyway so there's no need to culture that one.

[Dan]

it was probably my tecnique, in that case . interesting that the actual strain is available, ill have a go with that one. I thought most of the trapist breweries used champage yeast to carbonate . but nowadays, with all the liquid variety available. why bother culturing from bottles at all?

[J_P]

Against advice I have poured the dregs of a couple of bottles of Brakspear Organic and Hopback summer lightening into two demijohns each filled with two litres of sterilised oxygenated wort

I followed Mr Maltys instructions I have managed to get both types of yeast to multiply to starter size. Both demijohns now have a good thick layer of yeast on the bottom I guess my four years in higher education weren't an utter waste of time after all

I'll be testing the wort to make sure I have no super attenuating yeast contamination prior to using either of them.

[steve_flack]

it was probably my tecnique, in that case . interesting that the actual strain is available, ill have a go with that one. I thought most of the trapist breweries used champage yeast to carbonate . but nowadays, with all the liquid variety available. why bother culturing from bottles at all?

AFAIK I think all the Trappist breweries bottle condition with their primary yeast. Most centrifuge or filter then reseed the beer with fresh active yeast and primings for bottling. When bottle conditioning beers as strong as theirs the yeast is often knackered after the primary fermentation so that's why they add fresh at a known concentration.

The rumoured liquid yeast equivalents are

WLP-500 / WY-1214 Chimay
WLP-510 Orval
WLP-530 / WY-3787 Westmalle, Westvleteren, Achel
WLP-540 / WY-1762 Rochefort

Note that Westmalle, Westvleteren and Achel all use the same yeast (Westmalle supplies the other two). The flavour differences deriving from the yeast in those beers comes mostly from the temperature the beer is fermented at.

[delboy]

it was probably my tecnique, in that case . interesting that the actual strain is available, ill have a go with that one. I thought most of the trapist breweries used champage yeast to carbonate . but nowadays, with all the liquid variety available. why bother culturing from bottles at all?

I can think of a few reasons, its cheaper , you get to drink the beer and you are getting the actual yeast and not something that whitelabs/wyeast harvested probably years ago and which may have mutated in a different direction.
Plus its fun .

Does anyone know if the yeast in Duvel is the primary strain or not??

[J_P]

I can think of a few reasons, its cheaper , you get to drink the beer and you are getting the actual yeast

Plus its fun

Here here Del! I did it for a giggle and have ended up with what I hope is a usable product.

[sinkas]

Anyone know if Crouch Vale bottle condtion?

[steve_flack]

I can think of a few reasons, its cheaper , you get to drink the beer and you are getting the actual yeast and not something that whitelabs/wyeast harvested probably years ago and which may have mutated in a different direction.
Plus its fun

and then again you have the following problem

Does anyone know if the yeast in Duvel is the primary strain or not??

How do you know for sure what's in the bottle is

a) clean
b) alive
c) the primary strain

[tubby_shaw]

I can think of a few reasons, its cheaper , you get to drink the beer and you are getting the actual yeast and not something that whitelabs/wyeast harvested probably years ago and which may have mutated in a different direction.
Plus its fun

and then again you have the following problem

Does anyone know if the yeast in Duvel is the primary strain or not??

How do you know for sure what's in the bottle is

a) clean
b) alive
c) the primary strain

I like to culture yeast from bottled beers and have done so successfully on a number of occasions
So my humble answers are
a) The breweries pay a lot of money for quality control so the yeast should be clean and surely unclean yeast would produce unpalatable beer?
b) It wont ferment if it's dead
c) Does it matter if it produces drinkable beer ?
I brew because it is a hobby and I want to experiment

[steve_flack]

So my humble answers are
a) The breweries pay a lot of money for quality control so the yeast should be clean and surely unclean yeast would produce unpalatable beer?
b) It wont ferment if it's dead
c) Does it matter if it produces drinkable beer ?
I brew because it is a hobby and I want to experiment

a) I've plated Belgian ales and I can assure you that many of them don't just contain nice clean yeast.
b) It was alive when it was added. What's to say it still is? How old is your bottle?
c) No but I don't particularly want to waste my time brewing a 5 gallon batch and ruin it just because I was too tight to buy a yeast for it. I always make a 1L trial batch for those yeasts I've plated from bottles and taste that to see what I've got.

[tubby_shaw]

a) I've plated Belgian ales and I can assure you that many of them don't just contain nice clean yeast.


just because I was too tight to buy a yeast for it.

Now now Steve just because I am a Yorkshireman doesn't mean that I'm tight
I do buy whitelabs yeast especially when I'm brewing stout.
Maybe it's the "unclean" things in the Belgian ales that give the flavours that are so difficult to replicate ?
I also brew 1 gallon batches when first trying a yeast.
But I still like to experiment it's a hobby after all

[delboy]

I can think of a few reasons, its cheaper , you get to drink the beer and you are getting the actual yeast and not something that whitelabs/wyeast harvested probably years ago and which may have mutated in a different direction.
Plus its fun

and then again you have the following problem

Does anyone know if the yeast in Duvel is the primary strain or not??

How do you know for sure what's in the bottle is

a) clean
b) alive
c) the primary strain

I suppose i could always give them an acid wash to clean up any other nasties.
I have cultured the yeast in a bottle of chimay, i grew it up initially in a few 100 mls, as of last night its in a 2 litre starter that i aim to use soon on a kwak clone (tasted the starter and all seems fine).

The duvel yeast is indeed the primary strain, unfortunately its only one of two strains that they use when fermenting, so maybe using it won't produce good results.