Brewing alcohol free

Share your experiences of using brewing yeast.
Post Reply
f00b4r
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 731
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:54 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by f00b4r » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:41 pm

john luc wrote:The yeast mentioned in the above article is here. My thinking about adjusting PH is referred to in it. They recommend mash PH is adjusted. My thinking outside the box is working. Now if I can get back in the box that will be progress.
https://www.hefebank-weihenstephan.de/e ... en/wsl-17/
Interesting, how much did you have to pay for a slant? I’m in Germany so it might be a good resource for some yeasts.

User avatar
john luc
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:10 pm

I have not got this yeast yet. If you can source it let us know
Deos miscendarum discipule
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie

User avatar
PeeBee
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:49 pm

john luc wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:28 pm
The yeast mentioned in the above article is here. My thinking about adjusting PH is referred to in it. They recommend mash PH is adjusted. My thinking outside the box is working. Now if I can get back in the box that will be progress.
https://www.hefebank-weihenstephan.de/e ... en/wsl-17/
This is one you may have already found:
http://thethinkhank.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... etcha.html
Hum, don't agree with some of what he does. But seems you can get the yeast in Germany (but quite a price, 16Euros is one I found). I'm not convinced, but worthy of some contemplation ...

Cheers, well dug out that.

f00b4r
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 731
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:54 pm
Location: Berlin

Brewing alcohol free

Post by f00b4r » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:26 pm

Where did the €16 come from and did that include postage?

Edit: nevermind i see a few shops here sell it. It would probably be easy to slant and split.

User avatar
john luc
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:54 pm

http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func ... Id=8953111

If you want to slant it then have a pot of coffee on stand by and have a read here. The yeast I mentioned is commercial but the other yeast listed here is not.
Deos miscendarum discipule
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie

adamzworld
Hollow Legs
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:29 am

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by adamzworld » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:33 pm

john luc wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:37 pm
Robwalkeragain wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:13 pm
Whatever you do, don’t do what St Peters do and bottle unfermented, filtered, carbonated wort. They had a moan about their research being taken advantage of in this month’s brewers journal, I don’t think they spent much to get where they are :lol:
That does sound disgusting. There is an American homebrewer gone commercial who has proprietory designed a brewing process. Claims it's the real McCoy but sure we can all say that :roll:
I've just been given a couple of bottles of this St Peters beer. I'm afraid to drink it now!

Kingfisher4
Piss Artist
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Kingfisher4 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:32 am

[/quote]

I've just been given a couple of bottles of this St Peters beer. I'm afraid to drink it now!
[/quote]

When they first released it, it was only in a four pack. The best that can be said for it is the bottles are attractive! After one sip, the rest of that bottle and all of the other 3 were binned.

adamzworld
Hollow Legs
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:29 am

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by adamzworld » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:22 am

Kingfisher4 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:32 am
I've just been given a couple of bottles of this St Peters beer. I'm afraid to drink it now!
[/quote]

When they first released it, it was only in a four pack. The best that can be said for it is the bottles are attractive! After one sip, the rest of that bottle and all of the other 3 were binned.
[/quote]

I guess they must have tried a couple of bottles and decided that it was undrinkable, then gave me the remaining two bottles!

As you say the St Peter's bottles are attractive, so at least I can save them and use them for future brews!

Kingfisher4
Piss Artist
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:03 pm
Location: Derbyshire, UK

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by Kingfisher4 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:30 pm

I know I just recycled mine, but can’t remember whether it was because the shape of the bottles wasted lots of space in my storage or whether they were some of those labels which are almost impossible to easily remove from the bottles!

User avatar
PeeBee
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:00 pm

One of the reasons I said "I'm not convinced" by these saccharomycodes lugwigii yeasts is they don't touch maltose so I imagined intolerably sweet results (I'd also come across S. lugwigii when brewing ginger beer with "ginger beer plant", and it didn't sound too healthy!). None of the links discussed this in the links for S. lugwigii, but I assumed the guys knew what they were doing (?) and dug a bit deeper …

Seems my knowledge of mashing is a bit paper thin: Beta-amylase clips maltose off dextrin and starches? Too simplistic! Beer wort (all grain) will be composed of approximately 10% glucose, 8% sucrose, 2% fructose, only 48-50% maltose, 18% maltotriose and the rest as assorted dextrins (https://byo.com/article/sweetness-brewi ... -use-them/ and other sources provide roughly same amounts) and yeast ferments them in roughly that order (if it can). I still reckon 50% of unfermantable maltose will be too sweet, but this less simplistic view opens up the possibilities of using these yeasts. S. lugwigii only ferments the first 3 sugars in the above list (about 20% of the "average" wort constituents).

The commercial strains of S. lugwigii will certainly not produce some of the evil concoctions the "wild" strains reputedly do (one hopes!).

User avatar
john luc
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:34 pm

I was chatting with a commercial yeast specialist who said he would not release this yeast for legal reasons. Said that the brewery using it would need to be super sterile and as most brewerys are not then a high degree of spoilt brews can ensue. I note from the 2 research papers we listed both had a fail with this yeast.
Deos miscendarum discipule
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie

ingo
Steady Drinker
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by ingo » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:23 am

saccharomycodes lugwigii is every now and then made available to home brewers by Weihenstephan through the German hobby brewing forum.

One thing I've been looking for but have not found yet is what is the sugar composition of a cold extracted wort. Malting is not the same as a hot mash? How about saccharomycodes lugwigii with a cold extract? I'll see if I can get some saccharomycodes lugwigii of the next offer.

Ingo

ingo
Steady Drinker
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 1:15 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by ingo » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:30 am


User avatar
PeeBee
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:50 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:48 pm

I think I've heard enough for now. And without (knowingly) ever letting that S. Lugwigii stuff near my brewery.

I'm going to stick with S-33 and manipulate the maltotriose content of my low-alcohol beers because it sounds a lot less fraught. And find alternatives to S-33 along the way (like CML "Monk" looks a possibility?). Maltotriose is a lot less sweet than the maltose S. Lugwigii leaves behind (which will also be leaving the maltotriose behind). I reckon the grain bill has still to be kept low with S. Lugwigii, but not so much to keep alcohol down, but to keep maltose sweetness down.


Diverting away a little: A nice thing about those "Tilt" hydrometers is you get a finely graduated graph out of them. The following is not from a low-alcohol brew (it has an ABV of 6.5%!) but it does show rather nicely the S-33 yeast hitting the "Maltotriose" "wall". Most other yeasts gradually slow down as they work through the remaining "maltotriose" (and other dextrins perhaps):
1877-3a.JPG

User avatar
john luc
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:04 pm

Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:24 pm

In the document I posted the test brew with ludwigii used 70% pale malt and 30% wheat and this was the mash schedule ,
mashing:
37°C for 20 min;
44°C for 20 min;
48°C for 20 min;
52°C for 30 min;
68°C for 30 min;
and 78°C for 10 min at a ramping rate of 1.0°C/min.
Deos miscendarum discipule
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie

Post Reply