Brewing alcohol free

Share your experiences of using brewing yeast.
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PeeBee
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Mon May 20, 2019 12:17 pm

domejunky wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:25 pm
Great thread!

I've just started playing with overnight 10°C mash after reading this:

http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/cold- ... lications/

First turned out OKish - 0.8% - amazing head and mouth feel, bit dry though. I shall be nicking a few tips from above
I've had a good read of this article now. Interesting, on the grounds it's taking a quite opposite (and incompatible) approach. I'm taking the high temperature approach and encouraging dextrins and beta-glucans, the article is taking the low temperature (fridge temperature!) approach and discouraging dextrins and beta-glucans but filling in with protein extraction. The latter resulting in a very much drier result. Definitely worthy of a trial.

It'll be interesting messing about with the cold mash approach, but I don't see it as an alternative, more a different technique to end up with something entirely different. Perhaps?

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domejunky
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by domejunky » Mon May 20, 2019 1:17 pm

PeeBee wrote:
domejunky wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:25 pm
Great thread!

I've just started playing with overnight 10°C mash after reading this:

http://blog.brewingwithbriess.com/cold- ... lications/

First turned out OKish - 0.8% - amazing head and mouth feel, bit dry though. I shall be nicking a few tips from above
I've had a good read of this article now. Interesting, on the grounds it's taking a quite opposite (and incompatible) approach. I'm taking the high temperature approach and encouraging dextrins and beta-glucans, the article is taking the low temperature (fridge temperature!) approach and discouraging dextrins and beta-glucans but filling in with protein extraction. The latter resulting in a very much drier result. Definitely worthy of a trial.

It'll be interesting messing about with the cold mash approach, but I don't see it as an alternative, more a different technique to end up with something entirely different. Perhaps?
You've really got me thinking now. I've been looking at lactose or erythritol to backsweeten - but that just seems like a plaster for a flaw in the process. I'm wondering if a combination of methods would get to the right place.

One thing I read on Reddit, was that people were making pretty normal beers using a standard mash with the grains left over after a cold mash. I wonder if a hot mash would get beta glucans and dextrins, mix the worts and boil as per usual...

One thing for sure is that a cold mash produces a completely convincing beer in terms of head and mouth feel

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john luc
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Mon May 20, 2019 4:39 pm

Liking this approach as I read it.
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Wed May 22, 2019 8:55 am

This cold method may have some merit.
Cold extraction of pale malts can be used to produce a wort with nearly all amino acids and enzymes that would be available in a traditional mash process, but with only ¼ of the gravity
So you appear to get the required goody but a lot less gravity :-k
Cold extraction can be used to formulate a beer where as little as 15% of the gravity comes from malt and 85% from adjunct (sugars) resulting in a beer with similar perception without the use of special enzymes.
Given that 15% of the gravity is from the malts then adjusting the adjunct additions is the next step.
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Wed May 22, 2019 9:03 am

Low Alcohol Beer
The wort obtained from cold extracted mashing yields a wort that appears to have a disproportionately large quantity of the proteins that are responsible for good head retention and mouthfeel. Employing a cold extraction method to a standard 1.050 gravity recipe will result in a 1- 1.5% ABV beer with a full mouthfeel and good head retention.
When formulating low alcohol beer by this method one should consider that there is very little sweetness due to low residual dextrin content, and that it will be necessary to lower the level of hop bittering to achieve balance.


Given this to be the case how best to add the hops is the question. :-k
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PeeBee
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by PeeBee » Wed May 22, 2019 11:22 am

If you start thinking along the lines of "domejunky" and "hybridising" the methods, you might consider a steep for caramel/crystal malts (and any high roast malts I guess) to get dextrins back in (even "dextrin malt", which I hadn't previously thought of any good reason to use).

The spent grain from a cold extraction can be used as a enzyme-less adjunct for a "normal" beer next day too, appparently. Something I can consider because I ferment the low-alcohol stuff in the dispensing keg, so the fermenter is free for back-to-back brew sessions. But if the cold extracting is too effective, the spent grain may have plenty of extract available but no flavour.

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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by domejunky » Wed May 22, 2019 1:20 pm

I've been thinking that I need to shift my grain bill more towards PeeBee's suggestions. Then half it, compared to my "1.050" grain bill. Cold mash, hot mash, carry on as usual...

Hops do need a bit of consideration, I pretty much whirlpool all my hops, but there was very little hop character in my first attempt. I would be comfortable adding 25% to my flameout addition, and doubling my 80°C addition.

I experimented with a couple of drops of citra hop oil in the glass and Erythritol (4g per pint) - makes for a totally convincing beer

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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by clarets7 » Wed May 22, 2019 1:55 pm

I'm unclear about the conversion stage, how is this carried out? Is the wort held at normal mash temperatures for a period prior to boiling, or is there so little to convert that it just happens as the wort is brought up to the boil?

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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Wed May 22, 2019 2:40 pm

From what I gather you want to mash at 10C for 60 to 90 minutes. A normal 1050 sg recipe should produce a 1010 /1015 sg from this. You would then need to filter it well as the debris will burn in the wort when you boil it. As you bring up the temperature some of the enzymes will kick in and start converting starch and as we don't want this it makes sense to get up to boil quickly.
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Wed May 22, 2019 2:42 pm

I say 1/3rd your normal hopping rate may also be best
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by domejunky » Wed May 22, 2019 3:14 pm

john luc wrote:From what I gather you want to mash at 10C for 60 to 90 minutes. A normal 1050 sg recipe should produce a 1010 /1015 sg from this. You would then need to filter it well as the debris will burn in the wort when you boil it. As you bring up the temperature some of the enzymes will kick in and start converting starch and as we don't want this it makes sense to get up to boil quickly.
Have you gleaned this from the Briess blog post? I haven't found any reference to burnt debris - I might be tasting it though...

I went for the 8+ hour technique, rather than the 60-90 minute agitated method

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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by clarets7 » Wed May 22, 2019 4:23 pm

Just found this

http://jonscrazybrews.blogspot.com/2017 ... shing.html

where he suggests you do do a 60 minute rest at normal mash temperature before the boil. They do talk about conversion in the original link, surely this makes sense?

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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by domejunky » Wed May 22, 2019 4:45 pm

clarets7 wrote:Just found this

http://jonscrazybrews.blogspot.com/2017 ... shing.html

where he suggests you do do a 60 minute rest at normal mash temperature before the boil. They do talk about conversion in the original link, surely this makes sense?
That's what i did, well 45 mins

Looks like he's suggesting combing worts from hot and cold mashes

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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Wed May 22, 2019 5:05 pm

Just had a read of that and look forward to his results. The thing about the briess malt article is it is commenting on more than just brewing low alcohol beer. The focus of this thread is low alcohol beer so a 60 minute hot mash after the cold mash will bring more fermentables into the final wort. I'm thinking that time and temperature will be the key in this hot area to achieve a low alcohol beer. :idea: . Further discussion needed here.
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Re: Brewing alcohol free

Post by john luc » Wed May 22, 2019 5:26 pm

domejunky wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:14 pm
Have you gleaned this from the Briess blog post? I haven't found any reference to burnt debris - I might be tasting it though...
I gleamed this idea from 2 idiots on YouTube who did a cold mash and did not cleared the gunk from the wort. They produced 1 crap beer that was burnt and declared this a failure. #-o
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