Wyeast 1469 lag?

Share your experiences of using brewing yeast.
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orlando
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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by orlando » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:08 pm

PeeBee wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:20 pm
orlando wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:17 pm
... For liquid it depends on who you ask. There are claims that "wet" yeast only need oxygen for building their cell walls ready for dormancy. They don't actually need it for respiration in the lag phase.
Thanks for that link. I couldn't get a straight "yah or nay" to my question with it but it eventually says:
I do not believe that brewers necessarily need to aerate their worts at all if the pitching yeast comes from a fresh starter culture that itself has been well-aerated during growth and stepped up to produce a sufficient number of healthy cells, or if a large culture is repitched from a very recent (aerated) batch. Wort aeration is clearly beneficial, however, if you are unable to obtain the optimal pitching rate (about 1 million active cells per mL per degree Plato, or about 5 to 10 million active cells per mL for typical worts) — and many brewers cannot.
This is what I'm suggesting, but unfortunately it stresses that it is only what the author personally thinks ("I do not believe..." etc.) and not what might be reality. But also says "Many brewers have successfully made decent beer without aerating their worts" so it looks like "suck it and see" will be a low-risk way forward.

Bearing what the author has to say in "The Aeration 'Default'".

What answers my question best is when the author says:
Aerating your wort may solve some fermentation problems, but remember that if you’re pitching a fresh, healthy yeast culture of the optimal size, aeration is usually not essential and may even be undesirable in certain cases. Most important, the level of dissolved oxygen necessary in wort to produce the best beer depends on the strain of yeast being used, its viability, the pitching rate, and the style of beer being made.

My takeaway is, always aerate, can't do much harm. Mainly because I am rarely in the ideal pitching position. I am an inveterate repitcher and aeration helps in that.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Riders On The Storm
Conditioning: He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother (Wee Heavy) till December.
Drinking: Kings & Queens (Eldridge Pope Royal Oak clone), Gyle brewed Little Red Ruth(ster) & Red(Ruth)Rain 1867 recipe, From Russia With Love (RIS)

Up Next: Stout! In The Name Of Love, Elusive Butterfly
Planning: Autumn drinking Beer

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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by Cobnut » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:40 pm

orlando wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:08 pm
...always aerate....
with pure O2? Maybe I need to invest... :D
Fermenting: Schonramer Helles clone
Conditioning: London Porter
Drinking: Banks's Bitter clone, SMASH Keeping Ale (Chevallier, First Gold, Voss Kveik), Haflinger (rather odd weizenbock), 'Ol 'Enry Brut IPA, Cherry Chocolate Dubbel Trubbel, A Galaxy Far, Far Away Black IPA (or maybe it's an American Stout?), Quickie Voss Kveik IPA, Make American Stout Great Again, Amarillo Golden ale, Summer ale, Quick German Pilsner
Planning: Sussex Bitter, Dunkelweizen

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orlando
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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by orlando » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:05 pm

Cobnut wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:40 pm
orlando wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:08 pm
...always aerate....
with pure O2? Maybe I need to invest... :D
Oh yes. :D
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Riders On The Storm
Conditioning: He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother (Wee Heavy) till December.
Drinking: Kings & Queens (Eldridge Pope Royal Oak clone), Gyle brewed Little Red Ruth(ster) & Red(Ruth)Rain 1867 recipe, From Russia With Love (RIS)

Up Next: Stout! In The Name Of Love, Elusive Butterfly
Planning: Autumn drinking Beer

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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by PeeBee » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:35 pm

orlando wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:05 pm
Cobnut wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:40 pm
orlando wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:08 pm
...always aerate....
with pure O2? Maybe I need to invest... :D
Oh yes. :D
(Oh Gawd. Apollo 1 here we come!). :wall
"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by Jocky » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:39 pm

I have pure oxygen and I find my ferments start and finish very quickly.

So much so that when I went back to dry yeast for a batch recently I was baffled as to how long the process was taking.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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orlando
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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by orlando » Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:54 pm

PeeBee wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:35 pm
(Oh Gawd. Apollo 1 here we come!). :wall
If only that was the only hazard. :?
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Riders On The Storm
Conditioning: He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother (Wee Heavy) till December.
Drinking: Kings & Queens (Eldridge Pope Royal Oak clone), Gyle brewed Little Red Ruth(ster) & Red(Ruth)Rain 1867 recipe, From Russia With Love (RIS)

Up Next: Stout! In The Name Of Love, Elusive Butterfly
Planning: Autumn drinking Beer

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Re: Pure O2

Post by Cobnut » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:46 am

(Thought I'd better change the title, as the topic has moved from its' starting point...)

So for those who use pure O2, where do you get your cylinders from?

What other equipment is needed? I'm guessing a suitable regulator? Airstone (oxygen stone)? Suitable tubing?

And what costs are we looking at?

Finally, I guess there are some necessary safety precautions?

Please elucidate.

Thanks.
Fermenting: Schonramer Helles clone
Conditioning: London Porter
Drinking: Banks's Bitter clone, SMASH Keeping Ale (Chevallier, First Gold, Voss Kveik), Haflinger (rather odd weizenbock), 'Ol 'Enry Brut IPA, Cherry Chocolate Dubbel Trubbel, A Galaxy Far, Far Away Black IPA (or maybe it's an American Stout?), Quickie Voss Kveik IPA, Make American Stout Great Again, Amarillo Golden ale, Summer ale, Quick German Pilsner
Planning: Sussex Bitter, Dunkelweizen

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orlando
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Re: Pure O2

Post by orlando » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:26 am

Cobnut wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:46 am
(Thought I'd better change the title, as the topic has moved from its' starting point...)

So for those who use pure O2, where do you get your cylinders from?

What other equipment is needed? I'm guessing a suitable regulator? Airstone (oxygen stone)? Suitable tubing?

And what costs are we looking at?

Finally, I guess there are some necessary safety precautions?

Please elucidate.

Thanks.
There is somone near Ipswich that can supply the gas, ask Roger. As for everything else I suggest eBay, it's where I got my O2 regulator and Oxygen flow meter, I got an ex-hospital one. I would recommend a bracket to fix the cylinder in place, I got myself a fire extinguisher one then fashoned some webbing and clips to keep it "tied" in. Airstone I got from Lardy (Mark) at BrewBuilder. I had one fitted to a triclamp fitting so I could use it with my dump valve but you could have one fitted to a wand as others have.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting: Riders On The Storm
Conditioning: He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother (Wee Heavy) till December.
Drinking: Kings & Queens (Eldridge Pope Royal Oak clone), Gyle brewed Little Red Ruth(ster) & Red(Ruth)Rain 1867 recipe, From Russia With Love (RIS)

Up Next: Stout! In The Name Of Love, Elusive Butterfly
Planning: Autumn drinking Beer

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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by nickjdavis » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:26 am

I think you can get O2 cylinders for about £30....maybe £25 for a regulator....less than £10 for an airstone or perhaps £25 for an Oxygen wand.

I've been thinking about going down the Oxygen route.

Also interested to hear about the safety issues!!!

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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by PeeBee » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:43 am

Mine is a "Hobbyweld" job. Not cheapest 'cos it carries a £60 cylinder deposit (£26.50 fill) which you'll probably never see again 'cos that'll be enough O2 for life. The regulators are threaded differently (for oxygen) and the regulator cost £26.20. All needs VAT adding. Flippin' heck, it's cost me a fortune!

Reinforce PVC tube to connect, an airstone - sintered stainless steel is good, and a cheap flow-meter. You are looking to push about 2LPM through the submerged stone. You could probably get a flow regulator (instead of pressure regulator) for this?

Careful of the time limits you find posted - they tend to be American and Americans hate any flavour in their beer, and so many suggestions start at 1 minute of application. I go for 45 seconds, someone earlier (in this thread) suggests 30 seconds. Give the yeast plenty of oxygen if you want a "clean" (i.e. tasteless) finish, but be careful with pure oxygen as you can easily over do it.

BUT! See my earlier posts suggesting you don't need any extra oxygen!

Remember, oxygen is sold as a compressed gas, not liquid like CO2,so the pressures are very high (2000, to maybe 3000, PSI).
"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by PeeBee » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:54 am

nickjdavis wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:26 am
... Also interested to hear about the safety issues!!!
Pure oxygen makes the most surprising things burn, and fiercely! Only needs a spark to start ignition. I remember at school being shown steel wool burning. I believe even asbestos will burn? And of course, human flesh, spacesuits and space rocket capsules all burn rather well.
"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

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Re: Pure O2

Post by Jocky » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:00 am

Here's my full build of an O2 rig, updated to all the equipment I have now:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=76794
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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Re: Pure O2

Post by Cobnut » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:32 pm

Jocky wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:00 am
Here's my full build of an O2 rig, updated to all the equipment I have now:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=76794
Perfect!

Trouble is I now have another project and more expense...Ah! The joys of homebrewing!
Fermenting: Schonramer Helles clone
Conditioning: London Porter
Drinking: Banks's Bitter clone, SMASH Keeping Ale (Chevallier, First Gold, Voss Kveik), Haflinger (rather odd weizenbock), 'Ol 'Enry Brut IPA, Cherry Chocolate Dubbel Trubbel, A Galaxy Far, Far Away Black IPA (or maybe it's an American Stout?), Quickie Voss Kveik IPA, Make American Stout Great Again, Amarillo Golden ale, Summer ale, Quick German Pilsner
Planning: Sussex Bitter, Dunkelweizen

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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by clarets7 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:37 pm

Well, that's very informative! Not had any problems with it climbing out of the fermenter, but this is being fermented with an open top, as Jocky mentioned earlier that seems to calm it down. Didn't have any 02 pumped into it either, just a good splashing from boiler into fermentor. Was down to 1018 this morning, what's the typical attenuation expected for this yeast? (mash was 65C)

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Re: Wyeast 1469 lag?

Post by PeeBee » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:37 pm

Their (Wyeast) own Web site states 67-71% attenuation (presumable "apparent").

But it's good you say "what's the typical attenuation expected for this yeast?". Many folk believe the published figures are the "limits". They are just what to expect from a "standard" wort and perhaps better suggest how hard a yeast will work to ferment the "awkward" sugars (dextrins and like). I was using one recently with a suggested 68-72% attenuation, but with a bit of mucking about with mashing temperatures, I got 81% (that wasn't "clever me", I was surprised too!).
"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

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