Nottingham Yeast query

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Bertie Doe
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Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Bertie Doe » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:38 pm

Last Thursday and Friday I started my regular brews of Black Sheep Reg (with Nottingham Yeast) and St. Austel PJ IPA (with Mangove Jack West Coast). However, this time I tweaked my usual recipe by increasing grain bill from 4kg to 4.5kg and total liquor from 29 litres to 31 litres.

The IPA is fermenting steadily but on Sunday the Black Sheep started to burst thru' the bubble trap. I quickly removed 2.5 litres into a demijohn, which will remain there until bottling.

Does Nottingham have a reputation of being very volatile? Should I use a different yeast next time? I'm a bit reluctant to reduce the liquor back to 29 litres. Any thoughts appreciated. Regards Paul.

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:41 pm

Bertie Doe wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:38 pm
Does Nottingham have a reputation of being very volatile?
Yes, that is quite characteristic of Nottingham, and in my opinion it is also a clear indicator that you are likely to be fermenting it too hot (which has flavor consequences). It generally behaves much less aggressively when fermentation is kept at or below ~16.7 degrees C (~62 degrees F.).
Last edited by Silver_Is_Money on Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Rookie » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:16 pm

Silver_Is_Money wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:41 pm
Bertie Doe wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:38 pm
Does Nottingham have a reputation of being very volatile?
Yes, that is quite characteristic of Nottingham, and in my opinion it is also a clear indicator that you are likely to be fermenting it too hot (which has flavor consequences). It generally behaves much better when fermentation is kept at or below ~16.7 degrees C (~62 degrees F.).
I agree. I'm drinking a bitter brewed with Nottingham right now. It fermented in the upper 50s. Nottingham also settles down in the bottle nicely.
I'm just here for the beer.

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Bertie Doe » Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:43 pm

IMG_4675.JPG
Ouch, thanks Silver and Rookie, I had the radiator in the bathroom turned to max, prior to the brew. The bathroom forms part of the 1960's kitchen extension and has no ceiling insulation and is usually the coolest room in the house. The temp at the moment is 18c / 64f. Ok next time I'll switch rad off and maybe reduce water by one litre. I could top-up after a week.

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:30 pm

One thing to keep in mind is that an aggressive yeast like Nottingham can drive up the temperature of the fermentation by as much as about 3.9 degrees C. (or 7 degrees F.) above ambient at peak fermentation. For that case, to keep the fermentation at or below 16.7 C. (62 F.) the room the fermenter is in would have to be at an ambient temperature of about 12.8 C. (55 F.). Cellar temperature during the winter months might be just the ticket.
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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Bertie Doe » Mon Feb 01, 2021 11:10 pm

Yes a cellar would be ideal but these old terraced houses don't have them. We do have an outside unheated utility room but the temp just now is 9 C / 48 F. Probably a bit too cool. I could buy one of those brewing mats / belts fitted with a Smiths Timer say, 10 mins on, 10 mins off. They're also quite cheap to run at about 20 watts.

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Bad 'Ed » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:50 am

It's probably easier to ferment somewhere convenient and choose a yeast which works well at that temp.
Never enough time...

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by bitter_dave » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:24 am

I’ve never used Nottingham yeast but Mangrove Jack Liberty Bell yeast would work well at about 18c as an alternative

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Bertie Doe » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:51 am

Thanks Bad 'Ed and bitter_dave a change of yeast makes sense. It's also handy to ferment in the bath tub, in case of accidents. My next brew day, I'll try the Liberty Bell.

As I write, the MJ West Coast is still maintaining a steady one bubble every 5 seconds but the Nottingham is every 30 seconds. It's the tortoise and hare scenario. I'll be happy if they both finish at fg 1010, which gets me 4.3%.

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Kingfisher4 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:07 pm

I have found that Liberty Bell seems to very slowly chew through more complex sugars after primary fermentation producing over carbed bottles after a couple of months or so.

Clearly, this won’t be an issue if you don’t bottle, or drink your batch relatively quickly! Liberty Bell has a nice flavour and behaviour otherwise.

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by bitter_dave » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:38 pm

Kingfisher4 wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:07 pm
I have found that Liberty Bell seems to very slowly chew through more complex sugars after primary fermentation producing over carbed bottles after a couple of months or so.

Clearly, this won’t be an issue if you don’t bottle, or drink your batch relatively quickly! Liberty Bell has a nice flavour and behaviour otherwise.
Interesting observation - I've only barrelled beers I've made with Liberty Bell so over-carbing has not been an issue for me. Perhaps not the best option then if bottling!

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Bertie Doe » Tue Feb 02, 2021 3:36 pm

Ah thanks, the present batch I'm drinking - Black Sheep/Nottingham and IPA/West Coast, about 20% of the bottles are fizzers, with a lot of head. I didn't realize that yeast played a part and had assumed that the culprit was the Torrified Wheat, which I use to promote head. My preference is about half inch of foam.
In fact, with the batch I'm brewing at the moment, I've reduced the Torrified from 100 gr down to 50gr. It's odd that only 20% of the bottles are fizzers.
I don't batch prime anymore, neither do I prime the bottles. I aim to start consuming the beer after it's been bottled for 30 days.

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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:54 pm

There may be more reasons for gushers, but I'm only aware of these four:

1) The presence of excessive nucleation sites caused by Oxylates, generally due to insufficient calcium in the mash and/or boil.
2) Fermentation was cut off short of full completion. Bottles were filled too soon.
3) Too much priming sugar added.
4) Wild yeast or even more likely, bacteria contamination. Sometimes due to the finished beer pH being too high. Other times due to inadequate cleaning and sanitizing.
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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by themadhippy » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:14 pm

The IPA is fermenting steadily but on Sunday the Black Sheep started to burst thru' the bubble trap.
get rid of the bubble trap,you dont need it,the yeast layer on top of the beer keeps the nastys out .with an airlock(bubble trap) all your doing is restricting the pressure from escaping.
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Bertie Doe
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Re: Nottingham Yeast query

Post by Bertie Doe » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:37 pm

Silver_Is_Money wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 5:54 pm
There may be more reasons for gushers, but I'm only aware of these four:

1) The presence of excessive nucleation sites caused by Oxylates, generally due to insufficient calcium in the mash and/or boil.
2) Fermentation was cut off short of full completion. Bottles were filled too soon.
3) Too much priming sugar added.
4) Wild yeast or even more likely, bacteria contamination. Sometimes due to the finished beer pH being too high. Other times due to inadequate cleaning and sanitizing.
About 10 years ago I got a Report from the Local Water Board and fed the results into an online water calculator. The calculator suggested 2.5gr calcium chloride, 5.8gr gypsum, 1.5gr epsom salts, 1.7gr table salt, 15gr DLS, 5g CRS and one camden tablet. This part of Cornwall, the water is soft, maybe I should increase the calcium? Perhaps get an updated water report?

To make the bubble trap more sensitive, I add one drop of washing detergent, it works. I referred to this in my post of 4th Nov 2020. After about 3 days of no activity from trap, I check the sg. If it's 1010, then I'll bottle.

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