HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

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trucker5774
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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by trucker5774 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:57 pm

I have never given any thought to the plastic/health issue. It did cross my mind that I had been drinking alcohol for over 30 years and there may be an issue with that............now I have even more to worry about :shock: ............think I need a drink now :D
John

Drinking/Already drunk........ Trucker's Anti-Freeze (Turbo Cider), Truckers Delight, Night Trucker, Rose wine, Truckers Hitch, Truckers Revenge, Trucker's Lay-by, Trucker's Trailer, Flower Truck, Trucker's Gearshift, Trucker's Horn, Truck Crash, Fixby Gold!

Conditioning... Doing what? Get it down your neck! ........

FV 1............
FV 2............
FV 3............
Next Brews..... Trucker's Jack Knife

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Laripu
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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by Laripu » Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:30 pm

I've completed the next step of the experiment.

Yesterday I bottled 23 litres of a cider I call "Mostly". It was made with 22 litres of unfiltered apple juice, 1.5 pounds of DME, and 1 pound of lactose. So it was already a little bit sweet. I bottled it in half-litre Grolsch swing-top bottles. Plus 3 355 ml plastic Coke bottles, which I'll refer to as sentinel bottles.

For carbonation, I would have used 120 gm of regular table sugar, to get about 2.2 volumes of CO2. However, since I want residual sugar, I decided to add an 20 gm per litre. (In may previous post I decided that 10 gm/half-litre sweetened it a little, so erring on the side of caution, and because the batch was already slightly sweet, that's what I decided to use). Anyway, for the arithmetic-imparied, that's a total of 580 grams of table sugar for the batch.

The role of the sentinel bottles is to give me an indication of carbonation, which in turn will tell me when to carbonate. My plan is this: when the sentinel bottles get glassy hard from carbonation I will refrigerate one for an hour and then drink it. If it has sufficient carbonation then I will pasteurize the batch. (except any remaining sentinel bottles, which, being plastic, will get refrigerated and drunk early). Since there are three sentinel bottles, I can wait a bit before testing the next if the one I test is not sufficiently carbonated.

About temperature: the lowest my stove will allow is 170°F. However, I'm doing this experiment in part for the benefit of others on this forum, and I know your stoves are probably work in Celsius. So I'm choosing a temperature that converts nicely. Since 176°F = 80°C, that's the temperature I'll use. I'll let you know what happens.
Secondary FV:
"Marantzia", burnt orange based ferment, ~4% ABV
"House Arrest", blond ale, ~5.6% 24 BU
Bottle aging:
1. Tart cherry melomel, ~11% abv
2. "Peeyatch", peach melomel ~10%
Drinking:
1. "Old 11-ish", ginger braggot. ~11% abv
2. "X", Canadian-style blond ale. 5.7%, 28 BU
3. "honi soit qui mal y pense", culturally appropriated, tepache-style beverage. ~4%
4. "Saison of Social Distancing", rye saison, ~7%
5. Kvass ~1.5%

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trucker5774
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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by trucker5774 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:37 pm

Great work Lari. I'm still chilling as before (moving house soon so brewing is on hold) Once I have a supply of swing tops I will be playing again. Keep us posted, mate. :wink:
John

Drinking/Already drunk........ Trucker's Anti-Freeze (Turbo Cider), Truckers Delight, Night Trucker, Rose wine, Truckers Hitch, Truckers Revenge, Trucker's Lay-by, Trucker's Trailer, Flower Truck, Trucker's Gearshift, Trucker's Horn, Truck Crash, Fixby Gold!

Conditioning... Doing what? Get it down your neck! ........

FV 1............
FV 2............
FV 3............
Next Brews..... Trucker's Jack Knife

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Laripu
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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by Laripu » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:28 pm

trucker5774 wrote:Great work Lari. I'm still chilling as before (moving house soon so brewing is on hold) Once I have a supply of swing tops I will be playing again. Keep us posted, mate. :wink:
Will do. There is some yeast now collecting at the bottom indentations of the sentinel bottles. They're getting harder.
Secondary FV:
"Marantzia", burnt orange based ferment, ~4% ABV
"House Arrest", blond ale, ~5.6% 24 BU
Bottle aging:
1. Tart cherry melomel, ~11% abv
2. "Peeyatch", peach melomel ~10%
Drinking:
1. "Old 11-ish", ginger braggot. ~11% abv
2. "X", Canadian-style blond ale. 5.7%, 28 BU
3. "honi soit qui mal y pense", culturally appropriated, tepache-style beverage. ~4%
4. "Saison of Social Distancing", rye saison, ~7%
5. Kvass ~1.5%

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trucker5774
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Location: North Devon

Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by trucker5774 » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:15 pm

Yeah, baby..............harder the better... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John

Drinking/Already drunk........ Trucker's Anti-Freeze (Turbo Cider), Truckers Delight, Night Trucker, Rose wine, Truckers Hitch, Truckers Revenge, Trucker's Lay-by, Trucker's Trailer, Flower Truck, Trucker's Gearshift, Trucker's Horn, Truck Crash, Fixby Gold!

Conditioning... Doing what? Get it down your neck! ........

FV 1............
FV 2............
FV 3............
Next Brews..... Trucker's Jack Knife

jason123

Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by jason123 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:25 pm

Interesting stuff Lari.

My wonder is whether the grolsh bottle tops will take the pressure. When you raise the temperature for pasturising, the already pressurized bottles are goning to get a lot more pressurized by the heat build up from the fluid expansion, gas expansion etc.

If you have the opportunity, I'd test one somewhere safe first to make sure you don't explode the whole batch.

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trucker5774
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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by trucker5774 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:32 pm

jason123 wrote:Interesting stuff Lari.

My wonder is whether the grolsh bottle tops will take the pressure. When you raise the temperature for pasturising, the already pressurized bottles are goning to get a lot more pressurized by the heat build up from the fluid expansion, gas expansion etc.

If you have the opportunity, I'd test one somewhere safe first to make sure you don't explode the whole batch.
Jason, I think he has already done a test! One thing is sure, they have never exploded in my fridge :lol:
John

Drinking/Already drunk........ Trucker's Anti-Freeze (Turbo Cider), Truckers Delight, Night Trucker, Rose wine, Truckers Hitch, Truckers Revenge, Trucker's Lay-by, Trucker's Trailer, Flower Truck, Trucker's Gearshift, Trucker's Horn, Truck Crash, Fixby Gold!

Conditioning... Doing what? Get it down your neck! ........

FV 1............
FV 2............
FV 3............
Next Brews..... Trucker's Jack Knife

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trucker5774
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Posts: 3155
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Location: North Devon

Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by trucker5774 » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:39 pm

Well its official. Mrs Trucker and I have just come back from the pub and cracked a couple open. She reckons the latest batch is the best I've done and rivals her beloved Strongbow. As for the bottled shop bought Boondoggle..............that's another post :?
John

Drinking/Already drunk........ Trucker's Anti-Freeze (Turbo Cider), Truckers Delight, Night Trucker, Rose wine, Truckers Hitch, Truckers Revenge, Trucker's Lay-by, Trucker's Trailer, Flower Truck, Trucker's Gearshift, Trucker's Horn, Truck Crash, Fixby Gold!

Conditioning... Doing what? Get it down your neck! ........

FV 1............
FV 2............
FV 3............
Next Brews..... Trucker's Jack Knife

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Laripu
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Posts: 6929
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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by Laripu » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:06 am

jason123 wrote:Interesting stuff Lari.

My wonder is whether the grolsh bottle tops will take the pressure. When you raise the temperature for pasturising, the already pressurized bottles are goning to get a lot more pressurized by the heat build up from the fluid expansion, gas expansion etc.

If you have the opportunity, I'd test one somewhere safe first to make sure you don't explode the whole batch.
Jason, Trucker was right. I had already tested one bottle. But read on.

Today (after only 5 days!) the sentinel bottles were so hard that I figured they were fully carbonated. I refrigerated one and an hour later confirmed that. It tased very nice, a little sweet, somewhat flowery from the apple juice, and fizzy enough by my standards. Excellent. Time to pasteurize.

I did it in two batches, filling the overn with half the bottles each time. The oven was on convection setting, for circulation. I allowed the oven to come up to 176°F (80°C) and once it did, I left the bottles in there for 30 minutes. Took them out and did the second batch. After they'd cooled I bottled them. (Later I thought I should have let the oven come up to temperature with the bottles in it. I'll do that next time.)

Caveat: There was a pressure issue. I heard loud noises three times. There were no broken bottles... but what happened is that the Grolsch gaskets (do youse guyses say "grommits"?) failed, slightly, allowing a bit of CO2 to escape, with a short loud sound. Cider fart, if you please.

I examined the bottles carfully, and on five bottles (out of 46 or so), the gasket was askew, I assume forced that way by escaping pressure. This is nice: it's a self-regulating mechanism. I did have one 355 ml bottle that was capped the regular way, and it survived perfectly.

So the pasteurization went off without any serious problems... just a few scary sounds, that sounded like bottles cracking!

The next test will be over the next few weeks. Did the liquid get enough heat over sufficient time to totally kill the yeast, or will there be further carbonation. I will consider the experiment a success if nothing explodes over the next three weeks. In terms of taste, it's already a success. The use of 1.5 pounds of malt extract and a pound of lactose worked, as did 20 gm sugar/ litre. I hope the pasteurization didn't kill the aroma and flavour, but I think it's fine.

I'll let you know over the next few weeks. If this all works out as it seems to be, I will definitely do it again.
Secondary FV:
"Marantzia", burnt orange based ferment, ~4% ABV
"House Arrest", blond ale, ~5.6% 24 BU
Bottle aging:
1. Tart cherry melomel, ~11% abv
2. "Peeyatch", peach melomel ~10%
Drinking:
1. "Old 11-ish", ginger braggot. ~11% abv
2. "X", Canadian-style blond ale. 5.7%, 28 BU
3. "honi soit qui mal y pense", culturally appropriated, tepache-style beverage. ~4%
4. "Saison of Social Distancing", rye saison, ~7%
5. Kvass ~1.5%

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trucker5774
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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by trucker5774 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:38 am

Well done Lari. I'm looking forward to the final report. Be sure to keep them at room temperature (I'll allow you to chill and drink a couple) as at room temperature we will know if the fermentation has been halted.

As a point of interest, when I use my fridge yeast halt method, I bottle around 1020 t0 1030, depending on the OG and desired strength. I only leave them about 36 hours before fridge halting and there is sufficient carbonation to match a commercial cider.
John

Drinking/Already drunk........ Trucker's Anti-Freeze (Turbo Cider), Truckers Delight, Night Trucker, Rose wine, Truckers Hitch, Truckers Revenge, Trucker's Lay-by, Trucker's Trailer, Flower Truck, Trucker's Gearshift, Trucker's Horn, Truck Crash, Fixby Gold!

Conditioning... Doing what? Get it down your neck! ........

FV 1............
FV 2............
FV 3............
Next Brews..... Trucker's Jack Knife

User avatar
Laripu
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Posts: 6929
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:24 am
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by Laripu » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:31 am

trucker5774 wrote:Well done Lari. I'm looking forward to the final report. Be sure to keep them at room temperature (I'll allow you to chill and drink a couple) as at room temperature we will know if the fermentation has been halted.

As a point of interest, when I use my fridge yeast halt method, I bottle around 1020 t0 1030, depending on the OG and desired strength. I only leave them about 36 hours before fridge halting and there is sufficient carbonation to match a commercial cider.
Yes, they are all at room temperature (except the last remaining sentinel bottle which was not pasteurized, being plastic). Either it's confidence or it's hubris and I'm living dangerously. :D

The extra pound of sugar I added (above the carbonation sugar) at bottling time should have raised the gravity only about 8 points. So I guess some of my sweetness comes from residual sugar from lactose and DME.
Secondary FV:
"Marantzia", burnt orange based ferment, ~4% ABV
"House Arrest", blond ale, ~5.6% 24 BU
Bottle aging:
1. Tart cherry melomel, ~11% abv
2. "Peeyatch", peach melomel ~10%
Drinking:
1. "Old 11-ish", ginger braggot. ~11% abv
2. "X", Canadian-style blond ale. 5.7%, 28 BU
3. "honi soit qui mal y pense", culturally appropriated, tepache-style beverage. ~4%
4. "Saison of Social Distancing", rye saison, ~7%
5. Kvass ~1.5%

User avatar
Laripu
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Posts: 6929
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:24 am
Location: Tampa, Florida, USA

Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by Laripu » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:48 pm

I've wimped out. On Sunday, my wife noticed that the cider was less sweet and a lot fizzier. So some yeast must have survived.

I've moved the whole batch into our second fridge... and thank goodness we have one. :D it's still very good.

Next time I'll put fewer bottles at a time into the stove, i.e. 3 batches of 15 or 16 half-litre bottles. I'll put them in when the stove is cold, start timing when the stove hits 176F=80C. I'll leave them in for 40 minutes instead of 30.

The whole procedure will take longer, but still under 3 hours and it's all pretty easy.
Secondary FV:
"Marantzia", burnt orange based ferment, ~4% ABV
"House Arrest", blond ale, ~5.6% 24 BU
Bottle aging:
1. Tart cherry melomel, ~11% abv
2. "Peeyatch", peach melomel ~10%
Drinking:
1. "Old 11-ish", ginger braggot. ~11% abv
2. "X", Canadian-style blond ale. 5.7%, 28 BU
3. "honi soit qui mal y pense", culturally appropriated, tepache-style beverage. ~4%
4. "Saison of Social Distancing", rye saison, ~7%
5. Kvass ~1.5%

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trucker5774
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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by trucker5774 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:04 pm

Laripu wrote:I've wimped out. On Sunday, my wife noticed that the cider was less sweet and a lot fizzier. So some yeast must have survived.

I've moved the whole batch into our second fridge... and thank goodness we have one. :D it's still very good.

Next time I'll put fewer bottles at a time into the stove, i.e. 3 batches of 15 or 16 half-litre bottles. I'll put them in when the stove is cold, start timing when the stove hits 176F=80C. I'll leave them in for 40 minutes instead of 30.

The whole procedure will take longer, but still under 3 hours and it's all pretty easy.
Sounds like what you say is correct Lari.

Probably pre heating was not right. At least if you warm it up with the bottles in there is a better chance that the bottle temperature warmed up with the oven. As you say a little longer too next time. You know the fridge will solve the problem anyway.
John

Drinking/Already drunk........ Trucker's Anti-Freeze (Turbo Cider), Truckers Delight, Night Trucker, Rose wine, Truckers Hitch, Truckers Revenge, Trucker's Lay-by, Trucker's Trailer, Flower Truck, Trucker's Gearshift, Trucker's Horn, Truck Crash, Fixby Gold!

Conditioning... Doing what? Get it down your neck! ........

FV 1............
FV 2............
FV 3............
Next Brews..... Trucker's Jack Knife

aleian

Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by aleian » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:30 pm

Only just found this thread, what a great read! So, have I got this right? You bottle early :shock: , leave the bottles for a few days to carbonate (building some pressure), put them in the oven, warming and expanding the contents, bringing the CO2 out of solution, increasing the pressure even more :shock: then take the hot bottles out of the oven and cool them in the kitchen :shock: :shock: before storing?

Laripu, you have balls of steel and I bow down to your reckless disregard for personal safety.

I've just told SWMBO about your method - think I'll have to wait until she's out before I give it a go though!

Keep up the good work!

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Re: HOW I SWEETEN TURBO CIDER (TRUCKERS ANTI-FREEZE)

Post by Laripu » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:30 pm

aleian wrote:Only just found this thread, what a great read! So, have I got this right? You bottle early :shock: , leave the bottles for a few days to carbonate (building some pressure), put them in the oven, warming and expanding the contents, bringing the CO2 out of solution, increasing the pressure even more :shock: then take the hot bottles out of the oven and cool them in the kitchen :shock: :shock: before storing?

Laripu, you have balls of steel and I bow down to your reckless disregard for personal safety.

I've just told SWMBO about your method - think I'll have to wait until she's out before I give it a go though!

Keep up the good work!
Not quite right. Here's the whole procedure:
1. I boiled up some 1.5 lbs of DME and 1 lb of lactose and added to 5 US gallons of cold apple juice for a total of 23 litres. (N.B. 6 US gallons = 5 UK gallons = 23 litres)
2. I let it ferment out all the way, siphoned to secondary and topped off with the 6th gallon of juice. I let that sit for 1 month.
3. I bottled, batch-priming with the right amount of white cane sugar for carbonation PLUS an extra 20 gm/litre. Three of the bottles were small plastic Coke bottles, which are carbonation sentinels. When they're glassy hard, I refrigerate one and try it. If it's carbonated, I move on to pasteurization, if not I wait a few days and try the second bottle. (I didn't need to do that. They were carbonated in 5 days.)
4. Any remaining plastic bottles go in the fridge immediately.
5. Batch is pasteurized.

My pasteurization was inadequate. I heated the oven to 176F=80C, and put in the bottles for 30 minutes. The bottles were a bit crowded. but I only had two oven-loads to do. Bottle fermentation restarted, so the whole batch went in the fridge.

The next time I try this (in a few months), I will put fewer bottles in, and do that when the oven is cold. I will heat to 176F=80C, and then start a 40 minute timer. Since there will be fewer bottles per pasteurization batch, there will be 4 oven loads, not just two.

I hope that will be sufficient to kill the yeast. If not, I'll just load up the fridge with the entire batch again, and give up.

The cider tastes very good though. :D The malt extract and lactose are tasty with the apple juice. :D
Secondary FV:
"Marantzia", burnt orange based ferment, ~4% ABV
"House Arrest", blond ale, ~5.6% 24 BU
Bottle aging:
1. Tart cherry melomel, ~11% abv
2. "Peeyatch", peach melomel ~10%
Drinking:
1. "Old 11-ish", ginger braggot. ~11% abv
2. "X", Canadian-style blond ale. 5.7%, 28 BU
3. "honi soit qui mal y pense", culturally appropriated, tepache-style beverage. ~4%
4. "Saison of Social Distancing", rye saison, ~7%
5. Kvass ~1.5%

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