Batch sparge question...
Batch sparge question...
When batch sparging, do you recirculate the first (cloudy) runnings from each batch, or just the first batch?
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Vossy1
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steve_flack
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Vossy1
Cheers Steve 
I've encountered several 'issues' with batch sparging and my HERMS.
Firstly, if I drain the bed down completely the last 200ml or so is full of flour. I got round this by not draining down completely but it's hit and miss.
Secondly, I have to recirc for 10 min plus to get adequately clear runnings again...IMO
So if you add the 15 min for 1st drain down to the 5 min to top the mt back up and stir, another 10 min to recirc to clear and another 15 min to drain down, time taken is 45 minutes which is about the same as fly sparging.
In fact, when I played with fly sparging speeds on a batch a while back I found that at the end of the mash I could increase the pump flow rate to 5 ltr/min, dropping the runnings under gravity at the same speed, so a 60 ltr fly sparge would take 12 minutes.
This is considerably faster than both standard batch and fly sparging and there was no drop in efficiency, it remained at 81%.
I've encountered several 'issues' with batch sparging and my HERMS.
Firstly, if I drain the bed down completely the last 200ml or so is full of flour. I got round this by not draining down completely but it's hit and miss.
Secondly, I have to recirc for 10 min plus to get adequately clear runnings again...IMO
So if you add the 15 min for 1st drain down to the 5 min to top the mt back up and stir, another 10 min to recirc to clear and another 15 min to drain down, time taken is 45 minutes which is about the same as fly sparging.
In fact, when I played with fly sparging speeds on a batch a while back I found that at the end of the mash I could increase the pump flow rate to 5 ltr/min, dropping the runnings under gravity at the same speed, so a 60 ltr fly sparge would take 12 minutes.
This is considerably faster than both standard batch and fly sparging and there was no drop in efficiency, it remained at 81%.
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Seveneer
I fly sparge my HERMS and batch sparge my gravity fed, pilot brewery. In which case I recirculate the first litre or so (of both batches) with a jug until I stop getting grains husks in the runoff. Then just run off the cloudy wort.
I don't feel the need to get crystal clear wort when I'm brewing but obviously it's nice to see when I use the HERMS
/Phil.
I don't feel the need to get crystal clear wort when I'm brewing but obviously it's nice to see when I use the HERMS
/Phil.
Last edited by Seveneer on Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm in for both as well.
However, I never quite understood when recipes say to recirculate for 10 minutes. I have a 1 gallon (US) pitcher that I fill about half way up two times. Takes about 3 minutes. Have I bent the laws of sedimentation in my back yard? Or is 10 minutes just a catch all time?
However, I never quite understood when recipes say to recirculate for 10 minutes. I have a 1 gallon (US) pitcher that I fill about half way up two times. Takes about 3 minutes. Have I bent the laws of sedimentation in my back yard? Or is 10 minutes just a catch all time?
Johnny Clueless was there
With his simulated wood grain
With his simulated wood grain
Fly,
I think Daab touched on it there. I think 10 minutes means wait a bit and let it settle rather than a particular amount of time.
I probably recirc for too long - I do about 3 2 quart pitchers worth when it is usally clean after 1.
I wonder if I really even need to stir between batches. Suspect charging with the sparge water may stir it up adequately but once I get stuck in a brewing rut I rarely shift!
I think Daab touched on it there. I think 10 minutes means wait a bit and let it settle rather than a particular amount of time.
I probably recirc for too long - I do about 3 2 quart pitchers worth when it is usally clean after 1.
I wonder if I really even need to stir between batches. Suspect charging with the sparge water may stir it up adequately but once I get stuck in a brewing rut I rarely shift!
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eddetchon
bit late to this, but thought i'd put my two cents worth in (or should that be two pence since i'm on a UK forum?).
I think it is important to stir the grain up when you add the second batch of sparge water. partly the point of batch sparging is to lessen the potential effects of a less than ideal lautering system. if you let the bed run dry after first runoff (I do), it tends to set into a relatively compact mass. this could have two effects.
one is that when you add the second lot of water, that water is proabably going to find the the same channels (maybe down the side of the lauter tun, or through the grain bed) that were created during first run off, and you won't get a good flow through the grain to rinse it - the water just won't get in amongst the grains as much as you would want.
second, it seems to me important to wait a little bit, because the rinsing process is a bit like osmosis - the sugars need to move from a high concentration area (the grain) to a low concentration area (the water) and that takes a little bit of time. this is another reason to stir - you need as much of the grain to have water round it to 'move into'.
furthermore, and bringing these two points together, if you do have a poorish lautering system (and i do, or suspect i do) then you want an even distribution of sugars through the liquid. if you just add water to the top and don't stir, i doubt you are really going to rinse the grains properly, and will still have areas of high/low concentrations of sugars. doing a good recirculation before running off assists this process too.
ultimately these things do slow down batch sparging which is one of its potential benefits to many people, but then my manifold system is pretty ropey so i am happy to use it because it negates some of the issues with channeling etc, even if it doesn't probably save me much time in the end.
actually that was about 20p worth, but oh well.
I think it is important to stir the grain up when you add the second batch of sparge water. partly the point of batch sparging is to lessen the potential effects of a less than ideal lautering system. if you let the bed run dry after first runoff (I do), it tends to set into a relatively compact mass. this could have two effects.
one is that when you add the second lot of water, that water is proabably going to find the the same channels (maybe down the side of the lauter tun, or through the grain bed) that were created during first run off, and you won't get a good flow through the grain to rinse it - the water just won't get in amongst the grains as much as you would want.
second, it seems to me important to wait a little bit, because the rinsing process is a bit like osmosis - the sugars need to move from a high concentration area (the grain) to a low concentration area (the water) and that takes a little bit of time. this is another reason to stir - you need as much of the grain to have water round it to 'move into'.
furthermore, and bringing these two points together, if you do have a poorish lautering system (and i do, or suspect i do) then you want an even distribution of sugars through the liquid. if you just add water to the top and don't stir, i doubt you are really going to rinse the grains properly, and will still have areas of high/low concentrations of sugars. doing a good recirculation before running off assists this process too.
ultimately these things do slow down batch sparging which is one of its potential benefits to many people, but then my manifold system is pretty ropey so i am happy to use it because it negates some of the issues with channeling etc, even if it doesn't probably save me much time in the end.
actually that was about 20p worth, but oh well.