Mash to water ratio

[Hop Monster]

Hi guys, just a quickie

Does it really matter what quantity of water I use for a mash?
I currently use 3 litres per kilo but would like to try a thinner mash about 4.5 litres per kilo, how does this sound?

I usually mash 15 kilos at a time and it gets hard work stiring after a while.

Regards..

[steve_flack]

After it's all mixed in you don't need to stir all the time. FWIW the usual ratio is about 2.2-2.5L per kilo although you can go higher if you need to. It does affect fermentability of the wort but on a homebrew scale it's probably not worth worrying about.

[Madbrewer]

OK for a really non-technical answer?

I am no expert but have never been that concerned with calculating the water quantity. I just get the water to the strike heat and start with looking at the amount of grist and visualising what I think will give a consistency of 'alot thinner than how I have my porridge but not as thin as a cup of soup either.' Then I add the grist topping up when/if I feel its getting too thick. If you are temperature stepping though it becomes more of a problem upping to the desired temperature without running out of capacity in your mashing vessel.

Hope this helps?

[johnmac]

It does affect fermentability of the wort

Could you elaborate, please Steve?

[steve_flack]

From http://www.beer-brewing.com/apex/mashin ... ashing.htm

Mash Thickness: Thin mashes favor the conversion of starch to sugars, while in thick mashes the rate of saccharification is retarded, probably because the accumulating sugars competitively inhibit the hydrolytic enzymes (9). Therefore, thick mashes produce more glucose and maltotriose, which contain dextrins, while dilute mashes favor the production of sucrose and maltose, and thus wort attenuation.

I wouldn't worry about it too much - mash temperature has a much greater effect IMO.

[Andy]

Phil (Madbrewer), one of the benefits of knowing how much mash liquor you're going to use is that you can (more accurately) calculate the strike temperature required in order to achieve your required mash temp. If you don't know how much liquor you're using then the strike temp calc. become more hit and miss. Obviously you can top up with hot/cold liquor in order to get the right mash temp but I've found that if you know the quantities you're dealing with then the calcs are pretty good and less faffing about is required.

[Madbrewer]

Phil (Madbrewer), one of the benefits of knowing how much mash liquor you're going to use is that you can (more accurately) calculate the strike temperature required in order to achieve your required mash temp.

I agree entirely with what you are saying (in theory) ..... I just never get that up tight about it. In practice the the water level in my mashtun is 'remembered' and the thickness seems about right & it's very rare to need a top up for temperature reasons - though from previous conversations with you regarding the vast ranges of temperatures you experienced using a similar set up to me, my thermometer may not be all that either?

I wasn't advocating a don't care approach. I was simply stating in my own way that the thickness itself doesn't seem overly important.

[nobby]

From http://www.beer-brewing.com/apex/mashin ... ashing.htm

Mash Thickness: Thin mashes favor the conversion of starch to sugars, while in thick mashes the rate of saccharification is retarded, probably because the accumulating sugars competitively inhibit the hydrolytic enzymes (9). Therefore, thick mashes produce more glucose and maltotriose, which contain dextrins, while dilute mashes favor the production of sucrose and maltose, and thus wort attenuation.

I wouldn't worry about it too much - mash temperature has a much greater effect IMO.

Could someone explain how this effects the taste of the finished beer ie what a thick or thin mash tastes like

[Aleman]

I've only noticed the effect when mashing strong beers, which due to restrictions in tun volume I reduced the amount of liquor used. I ended up with a less fermentable wort as a result . . . But then it was also a big beer and wasn't going to over attenuate anyway

Thick mashes also 'protect' the beta amylase from heat damage.

In teh communist era at Plzen they used to start out with quite a thick mash, then when it came time to remove a decoction, the thick part was removed adn added to the decoction kettle. In this Kettle was a quantity of boiling water, that brought the temperature of the decoction up to the next rest temperature. It also made it easier to stir heat/ stir/ and boil without charring. At the end of the decoction period all the contents of the decoction kettle would be returned to the mash tun. The decoction kettle would them be filled with hot/boiling water for the next decoction. Over the course of the decoction mash the mash gets thinner, and the final liquor to grist ratio approaches 6L/Kg. The thicker mashes in the the beginning protect the beta amylase for much longer than would happen in an infusion mash. This was extremely important to the Plzen brewers as they often had mash times of 12 hours!

[mysterio]

2.5L per kilo of grist is my preferred ratio. Much thicker and it becomes harder to stir and get all of the grain hydrated, any thiner and I can't seem to get a uniform temperature. However quite often my mind wanders when i'm measuring out the mash liquor and I end up with something completely different to what I intended.

[Vossy1]

When I moved over to batch sparging I opted to add the entire 1st lot of liquor prior to doughing in, so I didn't have to disturb the mash twice for run off.
This in most cases, led to a 4:1 liquor to grist ratio with little difference being observed in the finished beers, as opposed to the previously used 2.5:1 l to g ratio.