Hi guys, my last two AG's I've used Daab's online calculator to create my batch sparge profiles, ie. top up the mash with batch 1, sparge then top up with batch 2 and sparge. Whilst it's worked reasonably well I find I struggle to hit the higher than mash temp without going slightly under what I'd like on the first sparge and then slightly over on the 2nd.
The biggest problem is of course that I'm adding hot water to water that's around the 65c mark on the first one then of course on batch 2 I don't need it as hot. Now I'm sure I'll get closer to the target temperature on both batches as my experiences increases but I'm wondering if the Beersmith method might suit me better and what, if any merits / handicaps it may have?
Basically, that tops up the mash with a fairly small initial amount, drain then do two equal batch sparges on the grain. I can see that this would make getting near the target temperature so much easier. Are there any pitfalls to doing it this way?
Batch Sparging, 2 step or 3 step?
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Gurgeh
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Parva
I've tended to struggle to hit 80c or so on the first hit yes. I know 75c or over is generally OK and so far I've got away with it but then the 2nd batch often ends up at the 85c end then so I'm still perfecting my technique and I dare say I'll get them spot on eventually. Just wondered if anyone had tried the 3 batch sparge method that Beersmith seems to use and whether it may be easier for me to hit more precise temperatures this way?
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Whorst
Here's what I do, and I never fret. Mash as usual. I do a 60 minute mash.
First thing I do is drain the mash. I recirculate for about 10 minutes until it flows clear. These are the first runnings. Then I slowly begin adding 85C. water from a stainless steel sauce pan to the mash. Get as much water into to your mash tun as possible. Recirculate if necessary. Drain, and if necessary, add more sparge water. The mash stabilizes at 75-76C. which is perfect for mashing out. Simple system and I would never go back to fly sparging.
First thing I do is drain the mash. I recirculate for about 10 minutes until it flows clear. These are the first runnings. Then I slowly begin adding 85C. water from a stainless steel sauce pan to the mash. Get as much water into to your mash tun as possible. Recirculate if necessary. Drain, and if necessary, add more sparge water. The mash stabilizes at 75-76C. which is perfect for mashing out. Simple system and I would never go back to fly sparging.
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Parva
That sounds a little easier than what I've been doing so far and it eliminates the issue with topping up 12.5l of 65c water and 5Kg grain with approx 8l of water to achieve a first batch sparge at ~80c.
Okay, I'll ask this question in a more direct manner because I'm not really getting to the issue I have. Assume 5Kg M.O., 90 min mash.
Daab's calculator for 23l :-
Wort Required for the Boil: 28.9L
Made up from two equal quantities of: 14.5 liters of wort collected from the mash.
Total Quantity of Water Required For Batch #1: 20.3L
Mash Volume: 12.5L
Top Up With: 7.8L
Water Required for Batch #2: 14.5L
Ok, Beersmith on the same 23l :-
Mash In: Add 12.50 L of water at 86.3 C
90 min - Hold mash at 67.8 C for 90 min
-- Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 1.58 L of 75.6 C water.
-- Batch Sparge Round 2: Sparge with 9.07 L of 75.6 C water.
-- Batch Sparge Round 3: Sparge with 9.07 L of 75.6 C water.
It would be so much easier for me to hit strike temperature on round 2 and 3, the issue is running off the first mash with only a 1.58l addition. I'll unlikely hit the right temperature with the first sparge but it would be so easy to hit it on 2 and 3 compared to the 2 batch sparge method.
Apologies if this is confusing, I'm even confusing myself now!
In essence, is it better to do a two-stage with probably fairly wide ranging temperatures or would a three-stage system be better despite not hitting the ideal temperature on stage one due to such a low water addition?
Hope someone gets the gist of what I'm getting at. And also, if anyone with Beersmith could educate me into how to turn it into a two-stage batch sparge instead of three. 
It seems to do three by default despite all my attempts and just wondered if it was deliberately designed this way?
Okay, I'll ask this question in a more direct manner because I'm not really getting to the issue I have. Assume 5Kg M.O., 90 min mash.
Daab's calculator for 23l :-
Wort Required for the Boil: 28.9L
Made up from two equal quantities of: 14.5 liters of wort collected from the mash.
Total Quantity of Water Required For Batch #1: 20.3L
Mash Volume: 12.5L
Top Up With: 7.8L
Water Required for Batch #2: 14.5L
Ok, Beersmith on the same 23l :-
Mash In: Add 12.50 L of water at 86.3 C
90 min - Hold mash at 67.8 C for 90 min
-- Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 1.58 L of 75.6 C water.
-- Batch Sparge Round 2: Sparge with 9.07 L of 75.6 C water.
-- Batch Sparge Round 3: Sparge with 9.07 L of 75.6 C water.
It would be so much easier for me to hit strike temperature on round 2 and 3, the issue is running off the first mash with only a 1.58l addition. I'll unlikely hit the right temperature with the first sparge but it would be so easy to hit it on 2 and 3 compared to the 2 batch sparge method.
Apologies if this is confusing, I'm even confusing myself now!
In essence, is it better to do a two-stage with probably fairly wide ranging temperatures or would a three-stage system be better despite not hitting the ideal temperature on stage one due to such a low water addition?
Hope someone gets the gist of what I'm getting at.
And also, if anyone with Beersmith could educate me into how to turn it into a two-stage batch sparge instead of three. It seems to do three by default despite all my attempts and just wondered if it was deliberately designed this way?-
Whorst
You'll need to know your system. I never top up, because I know how much wort I'm going to collect pre-boil.
My calculations indicate you'd need roughly 13L of water to initially mash your 5kg of M.O. Now you need to consider how much water will be absorbed by your grain bed. My guess is that if you drained your entire mash tun, you'd end up with somewhere around 8.25L. So now you need to add your sparge water to achieve your pre-boil volume. I have no idea how vigorous your boil is. I boil the shit out of mine, and I boil off between 6-7.5L. 75.6C water by the time it hits the grain bed is going to be significantly cooler. This will work ok, but you'll need to get the water to 85C-87C for the grain bed to stabilize at 75-77C. Basically the wort flows better at this temperature without unleashing tannins.
I hope this isn't redundant. But don't make it too complicated. Just mash and get your pre-boil volume where it needs to be. It'll take some trial and error. Take good notes and soon you'll be getting consistent results.
My calculations indicate you'd need roughly 13L of water to initially mash your 5kg of M.O. Now you need to consider how much water will be absorbed by your grain bed. My guess is that if you drained your entire mash tun, you'd end up with somewhere around 8.25L. So now you need to add your sparge water to achieve your pre-boil volume. I have no idea how vigorous your boil is. I boil the shit out of mine, and I boil off between 6-7.5L. 75.6C water by the time it hits the grain bed is going to be significantly cooler. This will work ok, but you'll need to get the water to 85C-87C for the grain bed to stabilize at 75-77C. Basically the wort flows better at this temperature without unleashing tannins.
I hope this isn't redundant. But don't make it too complicated. Just mash and get your pre-boil volume where it needs to be. It'll take some trial and error. Take good notes and soon you'll be getting consistent results.
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Parva
Yeah, both methods above assume 12.5l initial mash and loss to grain and mash tun loss. The Beersmith way of doing it would enable me to get near spot on temp with steps 2 and 3, the two batch method which I've used so far has meant an under-temperature batch one and an over-temperature batch two.
I'll just try the Beersmith way I think, only way I'm gonna know for sure.
Cheers for the replies.
I'll just try the Beersmith way I think, only way I'm gonna know for sure.
Cheers for the replies.
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Madbrewer
Parva - I just noticed whilst doing mine that I didn't allow for enough saturation in the grain/ enough of a grain soak up. Today I did a 3 stage mash instead of a two. Like Whorst says don't fret and I also seem to be a born again batch sparger!! (Used to fly sparge too).
I needed 966 sugar points based on a 23 litre brew @1.042
42* 23 = 966
(aiming for 73% efficiency means I needed enough grain for 1323 sugar points)
Just collected 18 litres @ 1.058 which means I over-grabbed by trying to put it right on the fly. However at no point did my Wort runnings get below 1.020 so no where near the dreaded 1.006 mark!
It seems I collected enough for 24.8 litres which will probably make up for wastage in my boiler. And accounts for a efficiency of 78% so no Biggie!
I needed 966 sugar points based on a 23 litre brew @1.042
42* 23 = 966
(aiming for 73% efficiency means I needed enough grain for 1323 sugar points)
Just collected 18 litres @ 1.058 which means I over-grabbed by trying to put it right on the fly. However at no point did my Wort runnings get below 1.020 so no where near the dreaded 1.006 mark!
It seems I collected enough for 24.8 litres which will probably make up for wastage in my boiler. And accounts for a efficiency of 78% so no Biggie!