AG#1; Mash-out Question

[techtone]

So I have done my first AG and it seems to have gone well and is fermenting nicely. Only problem I had was that I ended up with only 21 litres of wort rather than the planned 23. sg was 1.047 which I was happy with. I guess I could have just added 2 litres of water to reach 23?

In trying to figure out where I went wrong, I noticed that the two sets of instructions I was following differed according to whether or not to have what I now believe is called a mash-out. I seemingly ignored this not noticing the different instructions. What I did was to use an initial 12.5 litres of water for the mash. Then drained the wort. (having re-cycled etc) My instructions then said to add 20 litres. I was doing a batch sparge. Maybe the instructions were for fly sparging although it was not made clear. Anyway, I could not get all 20 litres into the mash tun, so just filled it. (30l cooler) I then drained for the 2nd time. Realising I was still a little short, I did a small 3rd sparge but still not enough, although this was enough to almost fill my boiler with only a little safety margin.

So even with a nearly full boiler, after 90 minutes of boil I was down to 21 litres going into my fermenter.

So my questions are, do most people do this mash-out. i.e. adding extra water after mashing before 1st drain? And how best to top up a full boiler to get 23 litres + losses. (I guess my options here are to sparge extra wort and add this to the boil to replace evaporation - is it ok for a smaller quantity to not get the 90 minutes of boil or just add cold water or maybe reduce the boil/keep lid partially on?) I did have the boiler at the level indicated for a simmer but I think it stayed on all the time, unless I turned it down even more.

Like I said, I'm sure it went well, just want to work this bit out, for next time. I know there are spreadsheets and programs to work it all out but just working on the basic principles for now.

[clogwog]

If you use a program such as BeerSmith, or any of the other approriate brewing software, you will after a few batches work out what your mash efficiency range is.
Once you have that, you can set the batch size to what you want, and then select your grains to arrive at the OG you are aiming at.

I don't bother with the volumes advised by BeerSmith. I simply design my recipe, mash in with water about 7 to 8ºC above my target mash temperature, and add water until I hit my desired temperature. I have no idea of the exact water/grain ratio and, within reason, I don't think it matters all that much.
As I use a small mashtun of only 25 litres, I add a mashout addition of 90ºC water to fill the mashtun fully, then recirculate and fully drain.
I add sparge water of 90ºC or so to fill the mashtun fully, then recirculate and drain.
I measure what I have in the kettle, deduct that from my target pre-boil volume, and add the difference to the mashtun as a 2nd sparge.
Always hit my target volume spot on this way.

You could have added two litres to the boil, but you would have diluted your SG somewhat. You could have tried to sparge with a little more water. I'm sure you'll deal with this issue when you become familiar what your system delivers for you. Keep notes, so you can correct any issues with your next brew.

[escapizm]

I always mash out, the hotter water ie 80 deg C washes out the sugars more effectively.

Did you consult the batch sparge calculator on here , http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/batch_calculator.htmli always use that in conjunction with graham wheelers beer engine. all free and all good for my technique. Ive had to adjust my beer enginer settings to account for my own set up ie 18% evaporation and trub losses.

[OldSpeckledBadger]

Once the mash has finished, you simply run about half of the sparge water into the MT, give a quick stir and leave it for 10 minutes to settle before running off. The repeat with the rest of the sparge water. It's that simple.

[dave-o]

Why bother mashing out ? It's only to halt enzyme activity to prevent further conversion of complex to simple sugars and it's not like the run off in a homebrewers brewery takes hours or it takes that long to get to a temperature in the boiler where the enzymes are destroyed/denatured. It has no effect on brew length/volume in the fermenter. (The practice of mashing out is just a bit of homebrewing folklaw that has stuck, possibly because someone saw it done in a commercial brewer - who take a couple of hours to run off their wort and another before the wort comes to the boil)

Hmm, interesting. I think i'll try dropping the mashout stage next brewday and see how my efficiency is. It would save a bit of faffing which is always good.