Panic - Brew wont get going!

[dean_wales]

Hello,

Panic fermentation question at the end. First the background...

On saturday I brewed this reciepe viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36850

My new AG equipment went well. In fact a little too well. I seem to have accidentally managed efficiency of about 90%!!!!

So my 5 gallon brew has an OG of approximately 1080 (!) and is much darker than it should have been. I dont mind this per say but its a shame I dont have a bigger FV as I would prefer a couple of extra gallons of normal strength beer! Will this OG be a problem - am I into barley wine realms here?!?!

I pitched the S-04 dried yeast by sprinkling when the wort had cooled to 25c or so on Saturday night and slapped the air lock on.

Its now been nearly 48hours and the fermentation hasnt really got going. Imterrieifed it is going to fail or spoil after alll that work. There is a small 1inch layer of froth and scum on the surface and the odd bubble through the airlock but nothing much. It is slowing if anything. I am used to volcanic fermentation! Its in my kitchen which is around 18c but is near a window.

Could it be too cold for fermentation to go off with a bang? What temp should I be fermenting at for such a high gravity beer?

Could I have pitched it when the wort was too warm and damaged the yeast?

I have a spare sachet of S04 - should I re-pitch or would that be a waste?

HELP - The more time passes the more depressed I am becoming!

Thanks,

Dean.

[Hoodlum]

Sounds a bit too cool - you'll need to get some heat into it - fishtank heater, heater tray or a belt. 20 Deg C should get it going. And wrap it up warm with a sleeping bag or something similar.

Someone with better knowledge of that yeast strain will be able to tell you if it will be able to cope with that much sugar in the owrt, or if it won't!

1080 seems a bit high for a beer yeast - but fret not - someone will have some better advice in a mo

[dave-o]

With an OG like that i would have made a starter. Dried yeast will probably be a bit shocked by your wort, and may take a long while to get going.

[steve_flack]

As has been said many times on here (and not just by me) - a starter with dried yeast is a waste of time unless you have a starter with a massive volume. You'll only make your yeast weaker. Rehydrate it for best results. If the beer is 'bigger' then use just use another packet. It will do you a lot more good than a starter IMO.

Back to the OP, I wouldn't rely on bubbles through the airlock as buckets aren't that airtight. Has the gravity changed since you pitched you yeast?

[dean_wales]

Im at work and havent check the OG as of yet. I am wary of opening the Fv too much while it seems so stagnant and without its CO2/foamy protection. Very worried about it spoiling.

I have just texted my partner at home to check the temperature and report back. I am clinging to this as a reason.

If I re-pitch the yeast should I sprinkle the yeast onto what little there is of the foamy krausen or should I skim and sprinkle it onto clear wort almost as if I was starting over?

Should you stir in the yeats? I never do but should I?

Worried thanks - will take gravity tonight.

Dean.

[steve_flack]

The CO2 blanket protection theory is another one of those homebrew myths. A fly (or whatever) flies past, gets stunned by the CO2 and falls towards your beer. Does it bounce off the magical blanket or fall in?

Wait till you get home. You may have a pleasant surprise and find out it's actually nearly finished. S-04 is an efficient little bugger.

[dean_wales]

PS Sorry missed the suggestions on re-hydrating yeast. Is this necessary with standard S04? I didnt realise.

Normally I have mounds of foam and its a struggle to contain the fermentation. Surely a beer of this garvity/sugaryness should be even more so. How do you encourage a thorough fermentation with high attenuation? I dont want this to finish at 1060 if I do get it going!

How much boiled water would I re-hydrate a 12g packet in then? I have been sprinkling for a few years though to be honest and this is my first stalled fermentation.

Dean.

[steve_flack]

Sprinkling usually does work but can kill quite a few yeast cells in the process. As the OG gets higher this gets worse. In the first few moments after hitting the liquid, the cells cannot control what crosses the cell wall. Once the cell wall is reconstituted by rehydration the cell can handle the high sugar levels better.

The volume of water isn't critical - about 100ml a packet I guess.

[boingy]

I think I've seen a recommendation of a ratio of 10:1 water to yeast (by weight) for rehydrating so 110mls for an 11g So4 packet, but I suspect the yeast is not going to care as long as it gets wet (I'm a confirmed sprinkler, despite the recommendation!).

The best advice you've been given so far is to check the SG. That inch thick layer of froth is most definitely the yeast at work so I would expect the gravity to be much reduced from the starting point. Also, check the temperature of the wort rather than assuming it is at the same temperature as the kitchen.

[dean_wales]

Just got home. The kitchen was 15c and not 18c as I had thought

Im going to move it into the babys nursery as its a bit warmer in there! Only 18c/19c though but should be better.

The head of foam has increased a little so I will not re-pitch or take the SG for now to risk making it worse.

I will report back in 48 hours - any idea on how to warm it a little with no special equipment?

Dean.

[Eric]

Fermentation generates heat so it will be slightly warmer than the air temperature. A room temperature of 18 or 19C should be fine but if you want to keep it in the kitchen and have a dish of larger diameter than your FV, add some warmer water to that and place the FV into it.

[dean_wales]

Sooo. its finally going but a few observations!

Gravity was down to 1035 so far last night but fermentation seemed to be slowing and foam was very very thin.

I stired the FV up a little with my ladel and it suddenly went beserk! I mean seriously! It virtually blew the liquid out of the air lock

Why would a good stir cause such a kick start to fermentation? Given the gravity of this beer I feel that a stir each evening may well help thinsg along. There must be 2 or 3 inches of deposits at the bottom so far!

Our baby slept well with the rhythmic bubbling of the FV next to her cot all night. Partner was quite so happy but tolerated it - result!

Any thoughts?

Dean.

[steve_flack]

It's like when you put sugar into a carbonated drink. The solution is supersaturated with CO2 and you've given it a catalyst to come out all at once. The sudden surge isn't yeast activity. It's the previously formed CO2 coming out.

[boingy]

Sounds like it is doing fine. Just make sure you sanitise the stirring spoon each time.

[dean_wales]

Yeah I will be careful. I normally just run boiling water over it.

The super vigourous bubbling continued for about 18hrs. Is that just CO2? Im not going to end up with a flat beer am i?

I have heard about crash cooling. Is it worthwhile to leave the FV out overnight on the patio? Then prime and bottle in the warm.

Thanks for all the advice.

Dean.