Using Nottingham yeast to finish what Windsor couldn't?

[norstar]

Ok, so on an earlier thread from 2008 someone wrote:

"I know a lot of brewers who have struggled with this yeast finishing very high, 1018/1020 when they combined it with their normal mash temps. When mashing slightly lower than you otherwise might they found it got down closer to a desired finishing level..."

Well I don't know if it was my missus turning off the heater in the fermenting fridge, or that I mashed at 67 degrees, but my first Windsor yeast ale has gone from 1.053 to 1.022 so that quote is me!

Just tasted it today after 18 days in the FV and dry hopping and the flavours are great, but it is just too sweet.

I've kegged it for now in my pressure barrel with sugar, but my question is, is it worth dumping a sachet of Gervin/Nottingham yeast to get that 1.022 down in the pressure barrel? Or just see if it balances out, learn my lesson and mash cooler next time?

If I do add yeast, is it worth doing a starter with some spraymalt?

[Hanglow]

I assume you don't have really good temp control as Windsor supposedly needs a fairly narrow range of temps to ferment properly and also rousing - I've not use it but read a fair bit about it when deciding what yeasts to use with my brews. It's supposed to be a bit finickity . You've got just under 60% attenuation, you should be able to get a few points lower with windsor but it's not unexpected by the looks of things!


You never need a starter with dried yeast, so just either rehydrate with some warm water or try lobbing it in if you want it to finish drier. Most of the yeast flavour has allready been created as most of the fermentation has been done, so it's not going to do any harm.


67C isn't too warm at all I'd have thought

[norstar]

My Temperature control is usually excellent - I've got a temperature controller and modified fridge with a tube heater in it too. Just that my missus turned it off one morning and that evening the air temp (not necessarily beer temp) had dropped to about 7 degrees. I roused it and got it back to 18 degrees quick smart but it didn't really drop any more after that. It may already have been done of course.

I've read that 67 degrees is a bit on the high side for Windsor as the sugars are harder to break down, so wonder if that's it. Truth is, I don't like the dry nature of Nottingham and wanted something a bit more "fruity", but if I can drop this one another five points, I'll be very happy.

What do you reckon, boil and cool tap water, rehydrate and pitch? Assume it'll still do the job in the pressure barrel?

[Pinto]

Windsor is a lower attenuator than Nottingham - in fact its usually selected for that reason as people want their bitter or ale to finish with a malty sweetness that a high attenuating yeast would suck out of the brew; good examples of this would be some of the Fullers ales such as London Pride, or Harveys of Lewes.

Personally, I'd put this one down to experience and enjoy the pint you've made - get another one on and select the right yeast from the get-go as to modify it now may take away the sweetness without adding the fruit you want.

[norstar]

I knew that Pinto - which was why I selected it. Always found my Nottingham beers to be a bit on the dry side and I wanted something a bit sweeter, but not *this* sweet. At 1.053 I was expected to get down to 1.015 rather than 1.022 with Windsor.

I might be wrong, but I think the fruitiness is there now as the Windsor has done its thing, but it's the residual sweetness that could do with going. Most people do seem to advise against further pitching though.

Maybe I'll see how it goes if it's going to be a problem. Next time I'll mash lower to get it to attenuate a little more and repeat the recipe. 60% is low even for Windsor I think.

[norstar]

Just one other thought, I do have a sachet of Pilsner Enzyme. Does anyone know if that would help?

[Hanglow]

No idea on that front



when you mentioned 67 degrees I thought you said that was your mash temp, not your ferment temp


Notty likes attenuating a lot, it might go too far although I've never pitched one yeast onto another.

there might well be another yeast like s33 or t-58 that might not attenuate quite as much as notty that might be a better alternartive?

[weiht]

Do not recommend the enzyme... Better off adding a krausening yeast or u may try nottingham. The enzyme doesn't know when to stop and may keep going and going and going, even after u think its done and bottle it! There are some cases where i read of bottle bombs, simply due to the enzymes doing it job

[Eric]

I'd leave it and agree with Hanglow that what you have is probably spot on for that combination. I've found Windsor continues working longer in secondary than Nottingham and you may find that the excess sweetness will subside with time.

[RichardG]

It's very possibly your mash temp. I had a porter mashed at 64 instead of my usual 66 which, using Windsor, went from 1044 to 1012 in 3 days. No problem at all. Usual bugger to clear though.