Batch vs fly sparge

[Underthethumb]

At the risk of sounding a complete muppet, are there any guides online that give a 'how to' on both methods? Probably being a bit anal about it all, but trying to get my head around as much as possible before I actually take the plunge and start my first AG brew.

Seek and ye shall find
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=39629
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/sparging.htm

[Eric]

+ I get problems with chill haze

Chill haze results from leftover proteins if the boil isn't rigorous enough. .

You get chill haze when you drink cold beer. If you drink cold beer you need to do extra things to deal with the haze.
I'm lazy and fly spage because it's easier. I'd batch sparge if I could find an easier method than my fly sparging.
The length of the debate proves both methods have certain advantages over the other.

[Ben711200]

At the risk of sounding a complete muppet, are there any guides online that give a 'how to' on both methods? Probably being a bit anal about it all, but trying to get my head around as much as possible before I actually take the plunge and start my first AG brew.

Seek and ye shall find
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=39629
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/sparging.htm

Thank you! That article on batch sparging is exactly what I was after

[dreadskin69]

This bairds thing is a bit of a revelation...
I presumed my first , and miscalculated, batch had a low og in relation to the little amount of water added due to a shite fly sparge pipe manifold... But apparently not... Even still, we will be giving batch sparging a god this coming Sunday to see which is easier

[boingy]

I always used to fly sparge but now I'm a total convert to batch sparging. You do need a larger capacity MT for batch sparging (unless you want to do lots of batches!) but I think it's much easier to mess up a fly sparge than a batch sparge.
Batch sparging needs no attention most of the time so you can take the opportunity to prepare the copper the FV, the hops etc.

I'll grant you that it's not as sexy as having a cool spinny sparge arm thing but I'd also wager that for every person who has a smoothly- rotating trouble-free sparge arm there are at least two others who have to constantly fiddle, prod and tweak their flow rate to keep the arm spinning without flooding the mash.

Not sure I've seen any particular difference in efficiency between the two methods, which may be a reflection on my fly sparging skill.

[newtonsshed]

Cheers Dave yeah IVe got the itch to brew to be fair I've moved house got a four year old and studying for a diploma in insurance not much free time at mo but come summer plan to get set back up again

[dreadskin69]

Boingy, can you explain to me then why after the mash is done only a small amount of water is added, then the mt is drained, and then refilled and mixed up and drained again? Why not just drained and then refilled? Also say there is still some wort left in mt at end of boil, can this be drained into boiling pots to top up? Or will this leave some nasty dextrins or something?

[Horden Hillbilly]

At the risk of sounding a complete muppet, are there any guides online that give a 'how to' on both methods? Probably being a bit anal about it all, but trying to get my head around as much as possible before I actually take the plunge and start my first AG brew.

Start here.

[InsideEdge]

Boingy, can you explain to me then why after the mash is done only a small amount of water is added, then the mt is drained, and then refilled and mixed up and drained again? Why not just drained and then refilled? Also say there is still some wort left in mt at end of boil, can this be drained into boiling pots to top up? Or will this leave some nasty dextrins or something?

You can do either to be fair.

I mash - top up with sparge water - drain - fill up with remaining sparge water - drain

If I didnt top up after the mash I might need to do 3 'drainings' instead of just 2. So it saves time.

[Dave S]

I always used to fly sparge but now I'm a total convert to batch sparging. You do need a larger capacity MT for batch sparging (unless you want to do lots of batches!) but I think it's much easier to mess up a fly sparge than a batch sparge.
Batch sparging needs no attention most of the time so you can take the opportunity to prepare the copper the FV, the hops etc.

I'll grant you that it's not as sexy as having a cool spinny sparge arm thing but I'd also wager that for every person who has a smoothly- rotating trouble-free sparge arm there are at least two others who have to constantly fiddle, prod and tweak their flow rate to keep the arm spinning without flooding the mash.

Not sure I've seen any particular difference in efficiency between the two methods, which may be a reflection on my fly sparging skill.

Yeah, I used to fly sparge before my 20 year hiatus in brewing because batch sparging was unheard of, (at least to me) back then. But since my return and discovery of batch sparging, I wouldn't go back to fly.

There is a point though about size of MT. I would find it difficult to do anything much over 1060 with my current 24 l cool box. Maybe an upgrade is imminent.

[Monkeybrew]

At the risk of sounding a complete muppet, are there any guides online that give a 'how to' on both methods? Probably being a bit anal about it all, but trying to get my head around as much as possible before I actually take the plunge and start my first AG brew.

I am getting close to my first AG brew too, and built a fly sparge manifold before I even realised that batch sparging existed.

I gleamed a few ideas on YouTube, as you can't beat seeing someone doing it to help understand the different processes.

MB

[Kev888]

Boingy, can you explain to me then why after the mash is done only a small amount of water is added, then the mt is drained, and then refilled and mixed up and drained again? Why not just drained and then refilled? Also say there is still some wort left in mt at end of boil, can this be drained into boiling pots to top up? Or will this leave some nasty dextrins or something?

I'll happily bow to Boingy on this if he has a better answer, but for what its worth I've always understood its in order to collect equal amounts from each batch - which minimises the MT volume needed by splitting the volume evenly between batches and equalises the grain/water ratio and so on.

Cheers
Kev

[boingy]

I'd love to have a better answer but Kev is bang on. The idea is to collect equal amounts from each batch. The first batch already has some "free" liquid so doesn't need as much adding. I don't really know the theory, just that it is supposed to be the optimum way. Over to one of the techy dudes to wax lyrical about mash out, pH, solubility, tannins and curvy porcupine graphs*.

If you get the quantities right there should be very little liquid left in the MT. Sometimes I do a third batch of a gallon or so, collect the low SG wort and then boil it separately with some random hops until the SG is respectable then I ferment it with some random yeast at whatever temperature my utility room is. And it still makes beer! Woo hoo! Bonus beer!


*curvy porcupine graphs may not, in actual fact, exist

[dreadskin69]

Ok, cheers ladz. So if im adding 150 to mash, and then 10 and then 100ltrs to sparge, i presume imperial looking 55ltrs to absorbsion? That's a ltr per kilo? Does that sound right?

On the other point can i top up the boilers with what ever might be left in the mt post boil or will that add nasty stuff?

[orlando]

Ok, cheers ladz. So if im adding 150 to mash, and then 10 and then 100ltrs to sparge, i presume imperial looking 55ltrs to absorbsion? That's a ltr per kilo? Does that sound right?

On the other point can i top up the boilers with what ever might be left in the mt post boil or will that add nasty stuff?

1 litre per kilo is about right but you don't want to be adding anything post boil that has not undergone sterilising or sanitation, particularly if this is under 80c.