Should I get a Mill?

[MashBag]

I suppose I am at "good enough" then. The commercial crush seems good to me.... Hence my "what's the gain then" questions ... And if it is just efficency, well I would rather lob another handful of grains in.

[McMullan]

No, it's more than mash efficiency. In some cases another handful of grain might have an undesirable effect and promote an unfortunate outcome.

[MashBag]

What sort of unfortunate have you in mind?

Sorry about the prev typos. I would blame my phone, but even its not that bad

[john luc]

Keeping grains fresh until crushed especially the aromatic ones is definitely why you want a personal grain crusher. When I get uncrushed grain delivered I put them into white sealed buckets to keep them as fresh as I can and then only take and crush as I brew.

[Eric]

Homebrewing is a hobby. Like all other hobbies, it is treated seriously or isn't, depending upon how it fits or is placed in you life with all else. For me it has got more serious since retiring, and in those 13 years there must be very little that hasn't changed or been replaced. Most beer I've drank in those years has been home brewed, mostly by myself, but many brewed by other hobbyists too and the object has always been the same, to make a better beer and one change was to get a mill. Did it made a difference? I don't know, but suspect it did for, potentially, I'd pull back if my beer didn't continue to get better.

I'd anticipated taking this picture in direct sun, but as too often happens, by the time I got the camera and in position, there was cloud covering. It shows my last brew, all from home milled grains with finings used only in the copper. Tomorrow I'll cask the next brew from a week before, milled at a slightly wider gap in hope and expectation it will inspire or produce further improvement. Both had raw material costs of 15p per pint.

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If you believe your beer can't improved, don't buy a mill. If you can't afford one, choose your malt supplier with care. If you do buy a mill, know it needs to be set to suit each and every grain you use and that grains vary in size and friability.

The hops to the left of the beer are Bramling Cross. The gap to the left of those had Northdown that have gone into Ken's garden behind after the winds blew down the support and those are far more advanced.

[MashBag]

Eric that is a smashing pint of beer.
I do like your poles of hops. Full marks.

Does everyone do it as a hobby? I am not sure...

Hobby: an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.

Does this come down to, are you a maker or a drinker?

I don't like or dislike AG brewing any more or less than baking our bread. Both I have a good understanding of...
But I do it for the product not really the process... Is this why I am not feeling the desire for a mill perhaps? Both equivalent purchased products are utter shite.

[Eric]

Hi Mashbag,
Until reading your post, I was quite content to believe the overwhelming majority of members of JBK were hobbyist amateur brewers with some professionals. Now you have me wondering how many might be satisfied with a limited brewing knowledge to then indulging in their hobby/ego-trip of posting to an audience? Surely those must be few in number and drift away when finding pastures new.

My brewing started when by law I could. It then wasn't a hobby to me and my results were not good enough to engage in much extra effort, especially when finding most available information was invalid. Today there's probably an equal mix of right and wrong information available on the internet, so today's beginners will find it a little easier than did I.

When real ale was being replaced by keg I drank Draught Guinness, became determined to strive to produce a drinkable beer and entered the world of all grain with Electrim Brewbin and a grain bag. The results for darker beers were a revelation compared to my previous efforts, but was still denied the sort of paler beers I had previously loved. I would say to have got to this stage with intent to progress further as a working and married man with children, brewing could only have been a hobby, for if it wasn't, surely I would have given up to use that time for something different.

To finish this story it needs saying that before the internet in general and JBK in particular, my brewing progress was slow and tenuous. Through Jim's I have received a mass of beneficial information that improved my beers beyond expectation, but in addition many new friends, some of whom I've had the pleasure of meeting and know others here have had comparable experiences. While it is possible some members of JBK might not consider brewing to be their hobby, I feel it would take little effort on their part to have a most rewarding and pleasurable hobby.

[guypettigrew]

A post of insight and genius, Eric. Thank you.

Guy

[Lederhosn]

The short answer is yes.

Of course you can get it crushed elsewhere and get good results.

But when very bright beers with fresh, lingering malt taste are the objective, a mill is unavoidable if quality is what you are after.

Most of the damage occurs at dough-in. You have about 15 minutes after crush before aging reactions occur
More advanced mills like the Meura Hydromill go as far as milling under degassed water. As homebrewers we don't need to be concerned with that though.

Mill and dough in immediately for best results

[MashBag]

That is a good point about freshness. I guess it also depends on style too then?

I have not yet purchased a mill, because quite frankly I cannot (for me) see a gain.

Another question if I may, does the length of mashing or holding (in cool liquor) before mash matter?

[Lederhosn]

Yup - does freshness make a taste difference.

I am with you there - I tub my malt and seal it up in ex bird feed tubs as soon as it arrives.
Get through a couple or three sacks a year. So six months is a max for me too. Never had had a stuck mash or a fountain.

Is a mill only beneficial for peeps who cannot get crushed????

Crushed malt begins to stale in about 15 minutes. It depends how much quality is wanted from the end result.

Larger breweries go as far as flushing the entire system with inert gas (N2 -- which also protects against explosions) or mill under water (Meura Hydromill for e.g.). For us, milling in batches and doughing in immediately into degassed liquor (boil off for 5 mins, then cool to dough-in temp), will do nicely.

This applies to all styles.

I highly recommend a mill if quality is what you are after. You can keep the grains whole (stored dry) for at least a year.

One also has the option of conditioning the grain when milling oneself. This gives a better grain bed with a higher flow rate.

Apologies for the double post.

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[Lederhosn]

That is a good point about freshness. I guess it also depends on style too then?

I have not yet purchased a mill, because quite frankly I cannot (for me) see a gain.

Another question if I may, does the length of mashing or holding (in cool liquor) before mash matter?

It's not really style dependent. Oxygen and enzymes do not discriminate by recipe.

Temperature and time are the two variables at the brewers disposal. To an extend, mash concentration can also become a factor, but that's nitpicking.

I would dough in at the suitable temperature immediately after crush.

Why would you want it to rest in cold water?

[MashBag]

I overnight mash.
Setup in the evening takes 20mins.
Press start. Hold @ 20c until mash @04.00
I start my nextday brewday ready to boil.

[Lederhosn]

As you heat up the grain, you will go through various temperature ranges affecting different enzymes and thus different results. If you are happy with it, then don't change it

You will have staling reactions though. Esp from dissolved oxygen and Lipoxygenase affecting the quality of your end result. This may not be noticeable with pre-crushed malt.

[MashBag]

Tbh, my process is somewhat strange compared to most, but the quality since gradually moving away from big brewday has seen quality & consistently improve.