Water treatment

[dubois]

I've been away from the site for a few years but I have a question I hope one of you can answer.
Despite having brewed for over forty years you never stop learning. My local water has changed a little recently and I've been looking at my water treatment to address a few problems.
I brew a barrel (9 gallons 41 litres) each time and look to end up with 45 litres in the fermenter. To do this I need to start with 65 litres. 15 litres goes into the mash and from the remaining 50 I use about 24 in sparging. All the water treatment programmes I have seen will give a figure for the mash which is fine. Then they refer to 'total' water for further additions. So my question is does this refer to the 65 litres that I start with or the 45 that I end up with? On the Home Brew Forum water calculator, which I usually use, they give an example of 25 litres which sounds like a figure you would end up with, but it's not clear. I've searched high and low on the web, and often come across people asking the self-same question, but no one seems to have the answer. In fact someone gave two references which each gave a different answer. There is quite a difference between the amount of salts to treat 45 and 65 litres.
Can anyone help.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[richard080561]

The sparge water needs salt additions in the same proportion as the mash. So 24/15 x the amount in the mash water.
Incidentally, 24+15 =39. What happens to the other 26litres? Are they used to top up the pre - boil volume? If so they should probably be treated inn the same way.

[MashBag]

All water that goes in the top, not what comes out of the bottom.

[PeeBee]

All water that goes in the top, not what comes out of the bottom.

That's a particularly good, concise, explanation!

I think your problem with "references" is because you're looking in the wrong place. You want the meaning of words (in English) not someone's opinion of what it should mean. "Total" is very specific to me. (Says someone who can twist "meanings" into the most elaborate shapes).

[Eric]

Many calculators seem written by those more familiar with spreadsheet architecture than the relevance of ion content in brewing liquors.

You don't advise what type of beer you wish to brew, nor any details of the water you use, both of which are vitally important in deriving what needs doing. Only rarely can there be a full and simple answer to a vague question.

A basic fine ale is best made from brewing liquor with calcium content between 100 and 200ppm in both mash and sparge liquor, according to the Handbook of Brewing, probably currently the most recognised reference book for students. Calcium plays a vital part in several of the many processes involved in brewing beer from grain, whether it deposits with phosphates to lower pH and oxalates to avoid later gushing; or the creation of Free Amino Nitrogen, a vital ingredient for satisfactory fermentation; or aiding the formation and deposit of hot break and the strengthening yeast cell walls to enable them to flocculate without bursting to taint and haze the finished beer together with a host of other important tasks, when over half of any added calcium will be lost to subsequent brewing stages.

So the answer can depend upon how much calcium is in the water you use and the total quantity of salts you might add. Should adequate calcium salts be added to the mash with that in the liquor to provide the wort in your fermenting vessels with enough calcium for that stage and your yeast to flocculate, then there potentially may be no need for salts adding to the sparge liquor, or the kettle.

As example, my water supply is very hard, such that fewer salt additions are necessary than any brewing with softer water. It is important to avoid a stage with too little calcium present and cause a spike in pH, or too little for yeast to freely flocculate. With already near 100ppm calcium present in my water, I can mash with only a small addition and add the balance of the predetermined quantity of salts to the sparge and or kettle to ensure sufficient will always be available to yeast. For a brew of similar size as yours, a firkin (meaning a quarter of A Barrel) I usually will add up to 20g of calcium salts, to the mash or sparge or direct to the boil, as indicated upon pH measurement.

Many brew with a lesser level of salts, as has been commonplace in USA from after Prohibition. In such cases it may be advisable to use yeasts less dependent upon calcium for flocculation, which also require more time to clear than traditional British Top Fermenting Yeasts. Those may also need to be lagered at low temperature to clear of hazes, that in a beer made with more calcium, doesn't.